What to call transsexuals?

<<Transgendered people just decided that they were on the "wrong" biological side;>>

This statement suggests a conscious decision?


<<to refer to them by the pronoun for their original gender or as "it" is purely an act of spiteful hatred. >>

Not if it leads them to realize that their condition may not be 100% true...otherwise, yes, it is a form of disrespect and should not be done. I was only being facetious of course.

<<Not if it leads them to realize that their condition may not be 100% true...otherwise, yes, it is a form of disrespect and should not be done. I was only being facetious of course. >>

My statements here are only valid for use of "it".

Refering to them by their original pronoun is never wrong. If you don't think so, then ask their mothers.

If the person doesn't have ovaries, then you call that person he?

<<If the person doesn't have ovaries, then you call that person he? >>

Of course not (generally). In the case of XX chromosonal women who have unfortunately have had to undo a hysterectomy--NO

don't bait me like that.

You know what a woman is. Don't play dumb

<<undo>>

That should read "undergo"

Then what do you look at? One poster said

"When speaking of transgendered people, I find that they still maintain inherent qualities of their birth-gender, and these can be seen to manifest from time to time, especially under stress. This strongly leads one to speculate that there is a tiered gender-identity in operation with transgendered folk: a true suppressed gender, and a superimposed one which is contrary to it..."

So do we call transsexuals by their birth-genders?

<<,So do we call transsexuals by their birth-genders? >>

Well, that's what we're attempting to discuss and solve...

I will often use the birth-gender; but depending on the circumstances I might use the "preferred" gender, especially if others are present and they're using it (even I'm not that big of an @sshole).

I wouldn't ever use "it", although when talking third person among family or friends in order to be humorous I must admit I've been guilty of it.

As stated above, I usually refer to them by their birth-gender.

Also there is the issue that it is hard to tell whether someone is actually a real transsexual or not. For example a guy in a dress could either be a transsexual or just a guy in a dress - a cross dresser who is still actually a guy.

Anyway, I believe that any pronoun is legitimate. When discussing transsexuals impersonally, I will refer to them as 'them' or 'it', because I personally consider it a joke. I will however be polite personally with them.

Transgendered people rarely have a "choice" in the matter; they usually have chemical and neurological changes that make them differ from the norm for their outward gender. Remember, sexual differentiation is a complicated process that starts with your chromosomes but can be modified all through your fetal and subsequent development by environmental factors such as maternal hormones, medications, and the interaction between the developing brain, the developing body, and various internal chemicals. It's a tricky process and things can go "wrong" at many points, leaving the individual with underdeveloped genitals, normal genitals but a "miswired" brain that behaves like the brain of the opposite gender, resulting in a disconnect between the body and the mind, unusual hormone imbalances, and a host of other issues. It's a real medical condition, not a game they are playing or some sort of social protest, and you can imagine how painful that must be, both physically and psychologically. And yes, they may show some characteristics of both sexes (as we all do). But that shouldn't make them a laughingstock or entitle other people try to force them into whatever pigeonhole they deem "correct". You wouldn't laugh at someone born blind or limbless or with a blood disorder. Why laugh at someone with a hormonal disorder? That's just a lack of sophistication and manners.

Uriel, are you referring to people who have sex changes?

<<Transgendered people rarely have a "choice" in the matter; they usually have chemical and neurological changes that make them differ from the norm for their outward gender. Remember, sexual differentiation is a complicated process that starts with your chromosomes but can be modified all through your fetal and subsequent development by environmental factors such as maternal hormones, medications, and the interaction between the developing brain, the developing body, and various internal chemicals. It's a tricky process and things can go "wrong" at many points, leaving the individual with underdeveloped genitals, normal genitals but a "miswired" brain that behaves like the brain of the opposite gender, resulting in a disconnect between the body and the mind, unusual hormone imbalances, and a host of other issues. It's a real medical condition, not a game they are playing or some sort of social protest, and you can imagine how painful that must be, both physically and psychologically. And yes, they may show some characteristics of both sexes (as we all do). But that shouldn't make them a laughingstock or entitle other people try to force them into whatever pigeonhole they deem "correct". You wouldn't laugh at someone born blind or limbless or with a blood disorder. Why laugh at someone with a hormonal disorder? That's just a lack of sophistication and manners. >>

Uriel, you proceed very eloquently from an assumption that is--though current--not new, nor proven. Your explanation is the trendy train of thinking, and yes has the appearance of being true. Just turn on any medical channel and you will see documentaries about this topic all the time.

I find it very interesting that you shift midstream to "laughingstock" and "pigeonhole" for apparently no reason.

Do you think your reasonings and beliefs are subject to your sympathies?

<<Transgendered people rarely have a "choice" in the matter;>>

Transsexual is not Transgendered.

Transgendered is usually a physiological condition that warrants understanding. The physically-transexual individual cannot help their condition. It is a true medical condition.

Transsexualism is different. It is NOT a type of Transgendered condition (i.e. "Transgenderedism of the brain" or "--of the sexual orientation function")

I believe that their is a male brain and a female brain due to the role of testosterone on a male fetus in the womb. If a transexual is born male, then he and his brain have been exposed to testosterone. Anything beyond that is speculated.

I also believe that human beings can function socially and sexually in either role, that humans males have the ability to convert to a female role and females to a male role. As humans, we have this ability.

Sex change ops should be illegal. The pervs who have had the done should go into solitary confinement in prison or hospital for the remainder of their natural lives.

Matt - shame on you! What has made you so lacking in basic human compassion? Referring to these unfortunate people in the way you did and then going on to say what you did about the way they should be treated is nothing less than obscene. It's a wonder you didn't go a step forward and suggest some kind of "final solution" scenario reminiscent of Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia.

Nevertheless I genuinely hope YOU never experience anything remotely traumatic in your life.

I think I may have been right in another thread - that you come from Englefield Green, Virginia Water or Sunningdale - I believe they are in areas of Southern England regarded as hotbeds of mega snobbish right wing reactionary bigotry.

Transgendered means that there is a disconnect between the psychological sexual identification and the physical sex of a person. Remember that sex is biological, whereas gender is a psychological construct.

Transsexuals have actually had their bodies chemically and surgically modified.

I have no "reasonings" or "beliefs" about sexual dysphoria and other sexual identity issues, nor do I suffer from them myself. I simply take an interest in the scientific aspect of it. I've always been interested in biology and the other sciences, and I work in the medical field. I've even met a few of these individuals. And medical evidence abounds on this matter; those who vehemently object to that fact are, in fact, probably guilty of showing THEIR biases and beliefs. ;)