I think we can all safely say that Germanic and Romance languages have influenced each other to a degree (and the degree varies with each language), but in the case of French, I'd say it is mainly just a Romance language with a noticeable Germanic contribution to its vocabulary. Spanish has an Arabic influence on its vocabulary through words such as "aceite" (oil), "azucar" (sugar), and thousands of other words, but that of course doesn't change the fundamentally Latin character of Spanish. Syntax and grammar in all of the Romance languages is essentially Romance, and along with vocabulary, helps to classify a language. Even English, with all of the heavy Latin influence on its vocabulary via Norman-French, is still correctly classified as a Germanic language based on its syntax, grammatical structure, phonology, etc. I suppose a good language to compare with English being classified as a Germanic language is the classification of Romanian as a Romance language. Romanian is fundamentally a Romance language as its syntax, grammar, phonology, etc. is Romance, but its vocabulary is largely of Slavic origin (although the most frequently words are predominantly of Latin origin).
What makes French a Latin-Germanic mixed language
<<I'd say it is mainly just a Romance language with a noticeable Germanic contribution to its vocabulary>>
<<Syntax and grammar in all of the Romance languages is essentially Romance>>
Al, have you not read any of the posts on this thread?
<<Syntax and grammar in all of the Romance languages is essentially Romance>>
Al, have you not read any of the posts on this thread?
Germanic languages where heavily influenced by the Romance ones but the contrary is not true. Romance languages don't have significant Germanic vocabulary.
what is the "noticeable germanic vocabulary in french?
take randomly a french text, and tell us what are this "noticeable" germanic vocabulary.
Germanic in french is very limited to some rural or medieval warrior vocabulary specific terms... And a lot of these few words are present in the other romance languages too. This is not what we could call "noticeable" germanic vocabulary.
In a randomly french tet the only noticeable germanic vocabulary might be the recent english neolgisms (which appeared about 20-30 years ago with infkluence of American culture) such as "week-end", "shopping", "cool", "happy meal", "marketing", etc...
take randomly a french text, and tell us what are this "noticeable" germanic vocabulary.
Germanic in french is very limited to some rural or medieval warrior vocabulary specific terms... And a lot of these few words are present in the other romance languages too. This is not what we could call "noticeable" germanic vocabulary.
In a randomly french tet the only noticeable germanic vocabulary might be the recent english neolgisms (which appeared about 20-30 years ago with infkluence of American culture) such as "week-end", "shopping", "cool", "happy meal", "marketing", etc...
other germanic words in french:
"hot-dog", "coca light", "big-mac", "kfc", "chicken wings", etc
"hot-dog", "coca light", "big-mac", "kfc", "chicken wings", etc
I was shocked when I knew that the French speakers no longer say "fin de semaine" but "weekend". Loanwords are useful, but only when they are strictly necessary. The French speakers don't have self-steem because they use superfluous English loanwords instead of their genuine French equivalent ones.
Colette aunque haya eligido un nombre francés debe de ser bajita, gordita y con un culo enorme! Me la imagino así.....Nunca había conocido a una chica tan huraña.
Guest Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:15 am GMT
Germanic languages where heavily influenced by the Romance ones but the contrary is not true. Romance languages don't have significant Germanic vocabulary.
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Vocabulary is not the only and not even the main marker for influence of Germanic on Latin resulting in Romance. The point is that modern German and pre-antique old Germanic language are relatively similar in structure, grammar, syntax and morphology, while this is absolutely not the case for all modern Romance languages compared with Latin. Romance languages are not successors of classical Latin but new languages created by language contact between Roman and Germanic population mixing during the centuries of the antique Germanic invasions and of the medieval migration perion.
Germanic languages where heavily influenced by the Romance ones but the contrary is not true. Romance languages don't have significant Germanic vocabulary.
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Vocabulary is not the only and not even the main marker for influence of Germanic on Latin resulting in Romance. The point is that modern German and pre-antique old Germanic language are relatively similar in structure, grammar, syntax and morphology, while this is absolutely not the case for all modern Romance languages compared with Latin. Romance languages are not successors of classical Latin but new languages created by language contact between Roman and Germanic population mixing during the centuries of the antique Germanic invasions and of the medieval migration perion.
Latin. Romance languages are not successors of classical Latin but new languages created by language contact between Roman and Germanic population mixing during the centuries of the antique Germanic invasions and of the medieval migration perion.
This is completely stupid and false. Please read a good book of romance linguistics instead of posting nonsense. You can probably find such stupid statements on the internet.
This is completely stupid and false. Please read a good book of romance linguistics instead of posting nonsense. You can probably find such stupid statements on the internet.
<<Vocabulary is not the only and not even the main marker for influence of Germanic on Latin resulting in Romance>>
Yes it is. When a language is in contact with another one its vocabulary may change, but not syntax or phonology. English received strong influence from French for centures but English has not the slightest French syntax feature . French was the language of culture in England and also the language of the ruling class. But only French vabulary passed to English. Why should be Latin different in relation to that hypotetical Germanic influence? The Germanic mercenaries were not even cultured unlike the French speakers in England so their influence on Latin is not plausible. It's those Germanic speakers that were in contact with the Latin Empire and adopted Latin words (both Classical and Vulgar) to call new concepts and things that didn't exist in their culture. I'm agree with you that Romance languages don't derive from Classical Latin. Romance languages derive from Vulgar Latin, a different Italic tongue but with a lot of Classical Latin vocabulary. Classical Latin was not the only language spoken in Italy and it was even practically dead as early as in 45 BC. People spoke Vulgar Latin and Classical Latin was used in legalese and literature only. Romance languages received significant Germanic influence during the Middle Ages, not before, and it was limited only to a few words in French and much less in the rest of Romance languages.
Yes it is. When a language is in contact with another one its vocabulary may change, but not syntax or phonology. English received strong influence from French for centures but English has not the slightest French syntax feature . French was the language of culture in England and also the language of the ruling class. But only French vabulary passed to English. Why should be Latin different in relation to that hypotetical Germanic influence? The Germanic mercenaries were not even cultured unlike the French speakers in England so their influence on Latin is not plausible. It's those Germanic speakers that were in contact with the Latin Empire and adopted Latin words (both Classical and Vulgar) to call new concepts and things that didn't exist in their culture. I'm agree with you that Romance languages don't derive from Classical Latin. Romance languages derive from Vulgar Latin, a different Italic tongue but with a lot of Classical Latin vocabulary. Classical Latin was not the only language spoken in Italy and it was even practically dead as early as in 45 BC. People spoke Vulgar Latin and Classical Latin was used in legalese and literature only. Romance languages received significant Germanic influence during the Middle Ages, not before, and it was limited only to a few words in French and much less in the rest of Romance languages.
<<what is the "noticeable germanic vocabulary in french?
take randomly a french text, and tell us what are this "noticeable" germanic vocabulary.
Germanic in french is very limited to some rural or medieval warrior vocabulary specific terms... And a lot of these few words are present in the other romance languages too. This is not what we could call "noticeable" germanic vocabulary. >>
Germanic words in French:
bleu, brun, gris, riche, chic, choquer, maquiller, farder, choisir, début, boulevarde, regarder, guerre (yes, it's germanic!), chiffon, gourmet, gourmand, bière, garage, déborder, rémarque, marais, flotter, flatter, blouse, robe, toupee, tampon, bouton...
<<This is completely stupid and false. Please read a good book of romance linguistics instead of posting nonsense. You can probably find such stupid statements on the internet. >>
No. No, it isn't. It's a case of romance linguistics capitalizing on an age-old orthodox reputation which they only partially deserve. Yet, people are waking up to the fact that reputation is only that. It's not fact. We need to take a fresh look and re-evaluate their status.
take randomly a french text, and tell us what are this "noticeable" germanic vocabulary.
Germanic in french is very limited to some rural or medieval warrior vocabulary specific terms... And a lot of these few words are present in the other romance languages too. This is not what we could call "noticeable" germanic vocabulary. >>
Germanic words in French:
bleu, brun, gris, riche, chic, choquer, maquiller, farder, choisir, début, boulevarde, regarder, guerre (yes, it's germanic!), chiffon, gourmet, gourmand, bière, garage, déborder, rémarque, marais, flotter, flatter, blouse, robe, toupee, tampon, bouton...
<<This is completely stupid and false. Please read a good book of romance linguistics instead of posting nonsense. You can probably find such stupid statements on the internet. >>
No. No, it isn't. It's a case of romance linguistics capitalizing on an age-old orthodox reputation which they only partially deserve. Yet, people are waking up to the fact that reputation is only that. It's not fact. We need to take a fresh look and re-evaluate their status.
No. No, it isn't. It's a case of romance linguistics capitalizing on an age-old orthodox reputation which they only partially deserve. Yet, people are waking up to the fact that reputation is only that. It's not fact. We need to take a fresh look and re-evaluate their status.
You probably don't know that the most competent ramance linguists were and are German, but none of them share your opinions!
You probably don't know that the most competent ramance linguists were and are German, but none of them share your opinions!
<<You probably don't know that the most competent ramance linguists were and are German, but none of them share your opinions! >>
I know, but I don't care.
My assesment of this situation is not a matter of *who*, but of *what*.
They're being German doesn't influence me in any wise
I know, but I don't care.
My assesment of this situation is not a matter of *who*, but of *what*.
They're being German doesn't influence me in any wise
<<Yes it is. When a language is in contact with another one its vocabulary may change, but not syntax or phonology. English received strong influence from French for centures but English has not the slightest French syntax feature ....Germanic influence during the Middle Ages, not before, and it was limited only to a few words in French and much less in the rest of Romance languages. >>
I cannot help but wonder this:
Had the Germanic invaders had a higher culture than that of Rome and the crumbling Roman Empire, and were the germans more highly esteemed in our eyes today than the Romans, would that change our perceptions of what occurred linguistically? (i.e. would we find ways to rewrite the books?)
I'd wager that Romance speakers would be scrambling to try and fit a germanic etymology to more words, and would be squabbling with one another over who was the more "germanic": French or Spanish.
Funny.
I cannot help but wonder this:
Had the Germanic invaders had a higher culture than that of Rome and the crumbling Roman Empire, and were the germans more highly esteemed in our eyes today than the Romans, would that change our perceptions of what occurred linguistically? (i.e. would we find ways to rewrite the books?)
I'd wager that Romance speakers would be scrambling to try and fit a germanic etymology to more words, and would be squabbling with one another over who was the more "germanic": French or Spanish.
Funny.