I think that Protestantism is more genuinely Hebraic whereas Catholicism with the Virigin and Saints worshiping has more Pagan influence. The Virigin can also be seen as the Egyptian Godess Isis. It's quite a paradox since countries where Protestantism exist were Christianized later than the Catholic ones. and one should expect that they have more Pagan things.
What makes French a Latin-Germanic mixed language
I have considered your point and it is an interesting one. Then I thought, ah, maybe the Reformation is the reason-I suppose it cleaned house, so to speak.
I don't want to hijack this thread. I don't have an answer to the original question about French, except to say that the origins of French have never bothered me.
I don't want to hijack this thread. I don't have an answer to the original question about French, except to say that the origins of French have never bothered me.
"Actually, what relly founded the ide of a "west", is not the greco-latin herency itself, but the myth that west as
a whole is heir of Greece and Rome. "
Very true, "western" culture just like katholic and (evend more) protestant Christianisme (in contrast to Eastern orthodox religion!) are adaptations of antique mediterranian and oriental cultural and religious elements by Germanic or Germanic-Roman peoples. Further examples for the Germano-Roman twin-character of Western culture: Gothic cathedral architecture, Pope in Rome - Emperor in Austrasia, Renaissance painting invented in Germanic Netherlands, Renaissance born from the wish of Germanized Romans (or Romanized Germans) to return to mystic Greek-Latin roots, Germanic codices written in Latin, Germanic rooted feasts like Chrismas (Midsummer Night) and Oriental rooted Eastern ((Greek: Πάσχα, Pascha)), Romance languages etc...
a whole is heir of Greece and Rome. "
Very true, "western" culture just like katholic and (evend more) protestant Christianisme (in contrast to Eastern orthodox religion!) are adaptations of antique mediterranian and oriental cultural and religious elements by Germanic or Germanic-Roman peoples. Further examples for the Germano-Roman twin-character of Western culture: Gothic cathedral architecture, Pope in Rome - Emperor in Austrasia, Renaissance painting invented in Germanic Netherlands, Renaissance born from the wish of Germanized Romans (or Romanized Germans) to return to mystic Greek-Latin roots, Germanic codices written in Latin, Germanic rooted feasts like Chrismas (Midsummer Night) and Oriental rooted Eastern ((Greek: Πάσχα, Pascha)), Romance languages etc...
Renaissance born from the wish of Germanized Romans (or Romanized Germans) to return to mystic Greek-Latin roots
Renaissance appeared in Italy, not in Germany .
Renaissance appeared in Italy, not in Germany .
Guest Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:39 pm GMT
Renaissance born from the wish of Germanized Romans (or Romanized Germans) to return to mystic Greek-Latin roots
Renaissance appeared in Italy, not in Germany .
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Renaissance appeared in Northern Italy, the former Romano-Germanic melting pot named Lombardy, not in Southern Italy - why?
Renaissance born from the wish of Germanized Romans (or Romanized Germans) to return to mystic Greek-Latin roots
Renaissance appeared in Italy, not in Germany .
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Renaissance appeared in Northern Italy, the former Romano-Germanic melting pot named Lombardy, not in Southern Italy - why?
<<Renaissance appeared in Northern Italy, the former Romano-Germanic melting pot named Lombardy, not in Southern Italy - why? >>
True. The Rebirth was fueled by the product of the intermingling of Roman and Germanic peoples and is therefore in part due to Germanic ingenuity.
It might not have occurred otherwise
True. The Rebirth was fueled by the product of the intermingling of Roman and Germanic peoples and is therefore in part due to Germanic ingenuity.
It might not have occurred otherwise
No, Renaissance appeared in Florence to be more precisse, Central Italy. Prior to that the Germanic countries were building ugly gothic Churches that do no exist in Italy aside from Milano.
"No, Renaissance appeared in Florence to be more precisse, Central Italy. Prior to that the Germanic countries were building ugly gothic Churches that do no exist in Italy aside from Milano."
Wrong, Renaissance was born in Tuscany, but gothic is also present in central Italy. In Florence there is Santa Croce. Church of Santa Maria della Spina in Pisa, the Chatedral of Siena, the Basilica of San Francesco of Assisi, the Orvieto Cathedral, and Santa Maria Novella in Florence (excepting facade of Leon Battista Alberti) are also gothic. Major part of these structures are insipired to little San Miniato al Monte Church: the prototipe of Italian Gothic, Romanesque and Renaissance architecture (all in one).
Wrong, Renaissance was born in Tuscany, but gothic is also present in central Italy. In Florence there is Santa Croce. Church of Santa Maria della Spina in Pisa, the Chatedral of Siena, the Basilica of San Francesco of Assisi, the Orvieto Cathedral, and Santa Maria Novella in Florence (excepting facade of Leon Battista Alberti) are also gothic. Major part of these structures are insipired to little San Miniato al Monte Church: the prototipe of Italian Gothic, Romanesque and Renaissance architecture (all in one).
you are wrong guys! Renaissance is a french word, so it appeared in France.
I think that Europe needs a Germaissance movement to return to the Germanic essence.
<<I think that Europe needs a Germaissance movement to return to the Germanic essence. >>
Hear Hear.
Yet we already have one. It is called the internet & commercialisation & Hollywood film industry
Hear Hear.
Yet we already have one. It is called the internet & commercialisation & Hollywood film industry
Andreotti, you are talking of dangerous things.
I remember a thing of my studies.
This is Apollo: http://www.freewebs.com/itajos/X%20ESPOSIZIONE/FURTI_file/image016.jpg
I remember a thing of my studies.
This is Apollo: http://www.freewebs.com/itajos/X%20ESPOSIZIONE/FURTI_file/image016.jpg
just a message Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:49 am GMT
""""Migration never make the local culture becoming a latin-germanic mix. The same way the arabic migration to Spain didn't made Spain a arabo-latin country. """"
Until today, there is a fundamental difference between arabic migration and Germanic migration: Arabs (like all Semitic peoples) do not mix with other populations, while Germanics do all they can to become indistinguishable (e.g. 25% of USA-population stem from Germans, but this fact is almost invisible in US language and culture). During migration period they tried to become Romans, but were too numerous to succeed, so they learned Latin only incompletely. This is the reason why Romance, the result of the vain efforts of barbaric Germans to learn good Latin, has only little to do with classical Latin except some vocabulary.
""""Northern France (northern half) has never been a land where about half of the population was romance and half of the population was germanic as you seem to think. """""
There are archological proofs for it (e.g. hundredths of well documeted Germanic cemeteries in northern France and Lorraine/Bugogne), medieval lists of thousands of French inhabitants showing that 90% of them had Germanic names like Robert, Frederic etc. , Germanic codices (law books), Germanic words and structures in French language etc..
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" (...Islam and Greco-latin cultures interfered much more in the mediterranean areas; including Spain from North Africa,
Balkans and near east...) That is precisely what makes Western culture "Western". It contrasts with other "Eastern", e.g. "Byzantine",
cultural mixtures "
My friend you have a very germanic-centred definition of "west". If I understand you well, what makes "western" for you is not greco-latin roots (since you recognise that they are not at all specifically restricted to the "west", but also "eastern" culture has also greco-latin roots).
So, for you, what defines "western" culture is the necessity of a "germanic mix" (I think following this logic you might exclude... maybe Greece itself from the western world since the germanic influence is non-existant there.
What I want you clarifies some: you stated that "western" culture is basically a germanic-latin mix, so I think you mean that the countries in which the so-called "mixings" are supposed to have been negligible are not really western? Am I wrong?
For exemple do you consider Sweden and Portugal both western or neither? if you consider them so, do you think that Portugal is culturally more similar to Sweden (western) than to Greece (eastern), or that Sweden is culturally more similar to Portugal than to Russia? """"""""""
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Indeed I would say that Greece is the least "western" country in Europe, while also Greece has had intensive contact with Goths. But Greece is much less "western" thhan northern Italy, thats sure.
Russia, as a former colony of Sweden (the name Russia itself is Swedish), has a lot of common with Sweden. But all dependes what is called "Russia". Kiew is a former Slavo-Swedish city, Sibiria is Asian....
""""Migration never make the local culture becoming a latin-germanic mix. The same way the arabic migration to Spain didn't made Spain a arabo-latin country. """"
Until today, there is a fundamental difference between arabic migration and Germanic migration: Arabs (like all Semitic peoples) do not mix with other populations, while Germanics do all they can to become indistinguishable (e.g. 25% of USA-population stem from Germans, but this fact is almost invisible in US language and culture). During migration period they tried to become Romans, but were too numerous to succeed, so they learned Latin only incompletely. This is the reason why Romance, the result of the vain efforts of barbaric Germans to learn good Latin, has only little to do with classical Latin except some vocabulary.
""""Northern France (northern half) has never been a land where about half of the population was romance and half of the population was germanic as you seem to think. """""
There are archological proofs for it (e.g. hundredths of well documeted Germanic cemeteries in northern France and Lorraine/Bugogne), medieval lists of thousands of French inhabitants showing that 90% of them had Germanic names like Robert, Frederic etc. , Germanic codices (law books), Germanic words and structures in French language etc..
______________________________
" (...Islam and Greco-latin cultures interfered much more in the mediterranean areas; including Spain from North Africa,
Balkans and near east...) That is precisely what makes Western culture "Western". It contrasts with other "Eastern", e.g. "Byzantine",
cultural mixtures "
My friend you have a very germanic-centred definition of "west". If I understand you well, what makes "western" for you is not greco-latin roots (since you recognise that they are not at all specifically restricted to the "west", but also "eastern" culture has also greco-latin roots).
So, for you, what defines "western" culture is the necessity of a "germanic mix" (I think following this logic you might exclude... maybe Greece itself from the western world since the germanic influence is non-existant there.
What I want you clarifies some: you stated that "western" culture is basically a germanic-latin mix, so I think you mean that the countries in which the so-called "mixings" are supposed to have been negligible are not really western? Am I wrong?
For exemple do you consider Sweden and Portugal both western or neither? if you consider them so, do you think that Portugal is culturally more similar to Sweden (western) than to Greece (eastern), or that Sweden is culturally more similar to Portugal than to Russia? """"""""""
_____________________
Indeed I would say that Greece is the least "western" country in Europe, while also Greece has had intensive contact with Goths. But Greece is much less "western" thhan northern Italy, thats sure.
Russia, as a former colony of Sweden (the name Russia itself is Swedish), has a lot of common with Sweden. But all dependes what is called "Russia". Kiew is a former Slavo-Swedish city, Sibiria is Asian....