If Germanic influence would have accounted for the evolution of vulgar latin all the romance languages today would have been affected in uneven ways. There was no Germanic empire at the time, just many different tribes who each spoke their own dialects.
What makes French a Latin-Germanic mixed language
<<4). Use of 'habere' + past participle for complex past tense (present perfect)
5) Use of postpositioned modal use of 'habere' (infinitive + habere) for new future tense--also falls under #1) & #4 above >>
I've always wondered why these constructions were so similar to english.
5) Use of postpositioned modal use of 'habere' (infinitive + habere) for new future tense--also falls under #1) & #4 above >>
I've always wondered why these constructions were so similar to english.
""""Dexter Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:54 pm GMT
If Germanic influence would have accounted for the evolution of vulgar latin all the romance languages today would have been affected in uneven ways. There was no Germanic empire at the time, just many different tribes who each spoke their own dialects. """""""""""""
In fact, the different languages and dialects of Romance are a perfect image of the different Germanic realm. Lombardic is/was spoken in the realm of the Lombards, French and Catalan in the realms of the Franks, Franko-Provencal in the Burgundian/Frankish realm etc...
If Germanic influence would have accounted for the evolution of vulgar latin all the romance languages today would have been affected in uneven ways. There was no Germanic empire at the time, just many different tribes who each spoke their own dialects. """""""""""""
In fact, the different languages and dialects of Romance are a perfect image of the different Germanic realm. Lombardic is/was spoken in the realm of the Lombards, French and Catalan in the realms of the Franks, Franko-Provencal in the Burgundian/Frankish realm etc...
Leasnam Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:16 pm GMT
French actually contains a couple thousand germanic words, because borrowing from Netherlandic, English, Scandinavian, and especially German has continued throughout the history of the French language. It is not solely limited to these 400...
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I agree! Most of the influence shows up in the French grammar and pronunciation. Further more the French language is full of Germanic constructions and phrases of every day speak. e.g. they say "Ou vas tu?" (="wo gehst du?"), instead of "Ou tu vas?".
French actually contains a couple thousand germanic words, because borrowing from Netherlandic, English, Scandinavian, and especially German has continued throughout the history of the French language. It is not solely limited to these 400...
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I agree! Most of the influence shows up in the French grammar and pronunciation. Further more the French language is full of Germanic constructions and phrases of every day speak. e.g. they say "Ou vas tu?" (="wo gehst du?"), instead of "Ou tu vas?".
Romance languages derive from Germanic. For example see the paralellism:
English: I eat potatoes.
Spanish: Yo como patatas.
It's the same.
English: I eat potatoes.
Spanish: Yo como patatas.
It's the same.
<<Romance languages derive from Germanic. For example see the paralellism:
English: I eat potatoes.
Spanish: Yo como patatas.
It's the same.>>
That was awfully stupid. Two really short sentences that happen to be the same structurally proves nothing. What about this:
English: I am twenty-two years old.
French: J'ai (I have) vingt-deux ans (years).
English: I eat potatoes.
Spanish: Yo como patatas.
It's the same.>>
That was awfully stupid. Two really short sentences that happen to be the same structurally proves nothing. What about this:
English: I am twenty-two years old.
French: J'ai (I have) vingt-deux ans (years).
french is a germanic-influenced language: it use the same letters than English, German or Dutch! And not only that, but french also use words! how incredible that french has the use of words, as Engliah, German and Dutch does! the similarities don't stop there because in french, like in the germanic languages, those words are expressed by pushing air thru the mouth; making noses that are understood as a meaning by the speaker!
Well I think all these are proofs enought that french has really strong germanic influence, and maybe is fully coming from germanic?
Well I think all these are proofs enought that french has really strong germanic influence, and maybe is fully coming from germanic?
French definitely has Germanic influences in terms of sounds. But the vocabulary is dominantly Latin-based. With that in mind, the influences of Latin is more pervasive than German. I understand French and can also understand a bit of Italian since they're both so similar. But I cannot understand German.
germanic wrote Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:44 pm GMT
"french is a germanic-influenced language: it use the same letters than English, German or Dutch! ....."
Thank you for your profound analysis of the situation! Indeed French uses not the latin letters Cicero used but the Germanic "Carolingian or Caroline minuscule", which is a script developed round year 800 by Germanic "barbars" located in the region of Aachen (Germany) as a writing standard in Europe. It forms the basis of all modern scripts, the French one included.
germanic wrote Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:44 pm GMT
"Well I think all these are proofs enought that french has really strong germanic influence, and maybe is fully coming from germanic? "
This is correct, but I would doubt that French "fully" comes from Germanic. Germanic participated fifty percent in the creation of French.
"french is a germanic-influenced language: it use the same letters than English, German or Dutch! ....."
Thank you for your profound analysis of the situation! Indeed French uses not the latin letters Cicero used but the Germanic "Carolingian or Caroline minuscule", which is a script developed round year 800 by Germanic "barbars" located in the region of Aachen (Germany) as a writing standard in Europe. It forms the basis of all modern scripts, the French one included.
germanic wrote Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:44 pm GMT
"Well I think all these are proofs enought that french has really strong germanic influence, and maybe is fully coming from germanic? "
This is correct, but I would doubt that French "fully" comes from Germanic. Germanic participated fifty percent in the creation of French.
GG Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:06 pm GMT
<<<<<<<<<<<
<<Romance languages derive from Germanic. For example see the paralellism:
English: I eat potatoes.
Spanish: Yo como patatas.
It's the same.>>
That was awfully stupid. Two really short sentences that happen to be the same structurally proves nothing. What about this:
English: I am twenty-two years old.
French: J'ai (I have) vingt-deux ans (years).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
paralellism between French and German can be best seen if one compares Latin to both of them:
errare humanum est
sich irren ist menschlich
se gourrer est humain
Tempus fugit
die Zeit vergeht
le temp passe
ALEA IACTA EST
Der Würfel ist gefallen
le dé est jeté
Audiatur et altera pars
Man höre auch die andere Seite
On écoute aussi la autre part
quo vadis
wo gehst du
ou va tu
Dies diem docet
Ein Tag lehrt den anderen Tag
Un Jour enseigne le autre Jour
Un día enseña a otro día
French vocabulary is more latin, its structure more Germanic.
<<<<<<<<<<<
<<Romance languages derive from Germanic. For example see the paralellism:
English: I eat potatoes.
Spanish: Yo como patatas.
It's the same.>>
That was awfully stupid. Two really short sentences that happen to be the same structurally proves nothing. What about this:
English: I am twenty-two years old.
French: J'ai (I have) vingt-deux ans (years).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
paralellism between French and German can be best seen if one compares Latin to both of them:
errare humanum est
sich irren ist menschlich
se gourrer est humain
Tempus fugit
die Zeit vergeht
le temp passe
ALEA IACTA EST
Der Würfel ist gefallen
le dé est jeté
Audiatur et altera pars
Man höre auch die andere Seite
On écoute aussi la autre part
quo vadis
wo gehst du
ou va tu
Dies diem docet
Ein Tag lehrt den anderen Tag
Un Jour enseigne le autre Jour
Un día enseña a otro día
French vocabulary is more latin, its structure more Germanic.
Your translator is very bad...
-"Se gourrer est humain"----->'se gourrer' is a very vulgar verb, 'L'erreur est humaine' is A LOT better.
-"Le temp passe"------>'Le temps passe' and 'Le temps fuit' is right also ('fugire' became 'fuir' in French).
-"le dé est jeté"------> the translation of 'Alea jacta est' is 'Les dés sont jetés'.
-"ou va tu"-----> 'Où vas-tu' or 'Où tu vas' are both right.
-"Un Jour enseigne le autre Jour"------>I don't know this sentence in French but 'Un jour enseigne l'autre jour' is better.
-"Se gourrer est humain"----->'se gourrer' is a very vulgar verb, 'L'erreur est humaine' is A LOT better.
-"Le temp passe"------>'Le temps passe' and 'Le temps fuit' is right also ('fugire' became 'fuir' in French).
-"le dé est jeté"------> the translation of 'Alea jacta est' is 'Les dés sont jetés'.
-"ou va tu"-----> 'Où vas-tu' or 'Où tu vas' are both right.
-"Un Jour enseigne le autre Jour"------>I don't know this sentence in French but 'Un jour enseigne l'autre jour' is better.
'se gourrer' precisely comes from Germanic "(w)irren" - for the rest you are right, translation is not elegant, but the purpose was not to be elegant but to show the parallel between German and French and how far away French grammar is from Latin (French v o c a b u l a r y is more related to Latin than to German)
Vulgar Latin wasn't like Classical Latin even from the earliest times, which was always more of an artificial language created for literarature and prose. Grafitti found in pompei and herculaneum show that the language of vulgar latin was quite different.
CaseusClay Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:12 pm GMT
Vulgar Latin wasn't like Classical Latin even from the earliest times, which was always more of an artificial language created for literarature and prose. Grafitti found in pompei and herculaneum show that the language of vulgar latin was quite different.
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The Grafitti found in pompei and herculaneum are not clearly enough different from Classical Latin and consist of only a few words. Vulgar Latin is until now purely hypothetical and not even plausible....
Vulgar Latin wasn't like Classical Latin even from the earliest times, which was always more of an artificial language created for literarature and prose. Grafitti found in pompei and herculaneum show that the language of vulgar latin was quite different.
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The Grafitti found in pompei and herculaneum are not clearly enough different from Classical Latin and consist of only a few words. Vulgar Latin is until now purely hypothetical and not even plausible....
<<,Vulgar Latin wasn't like Classical Latin even from the earliest times, which was always more of an artificial language created for literarature and prose. Grafitti found in pompei and herculaneum show that the language of vulgar latin was quite different. >>
No one knows really what early vulgar Latin was like, or how much it diverged from Classical Latin. Nor was Classical Latin an artifical language--it started as a real spoken language. It only became semi-artificial and staticized AFTER such time as when it was maintained for literary purposes only.
No one knows really what early vulgar Latin was like, or how much it diverged from Classical Latin. Nor was Classical Latin an artifical language--it started as a real spoken language. It only became semi-artificial and staticized AFTER such time as when it was maintained for literary purposes only.