Why do Dutch and Scandinavians speak English so well?
Quote from a post written by a Dutch person. Typical - full of mistakes but the Dutch still think they speak better English than the Americans / Brits do.
The Dutch often compliment each other on their perfect English e.g. "he / she speaks English without an accent" when in fact the person speaks with a very noticeable Dutch accent. The Dutch seem to think they can judge that themselves. ARROGANT OMG!!!
English-speakers, it's partly our fault for telling them they speak better English than we do. I know we don't really mean it and it's just a compliment, but the Dutch think we mean it literally and believe it, adding to their already enormously inflated egos.
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Again, please point out where *EVERY* Dutch person assumes that they speak better English than Americans and Brits do? You are making arguments out of nothing else but thin air. Also, who cares about a person's accent? As long as you can understand it, then its fine. Speaking perfectly English without any trace of accent is nearly impossible for a none-English person to pull off.
If you really want to be insulting, then please find something solid to back up your posts.
Again, please point out where *EVERY* Dutch person assumes that they speak better English than Americans and Brits do? You are making arguments out of nothing else but thin air.
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Go to Amsterdam and you will see it.
<<You're lucky, I'm italian, have an italian name and surname and live in germany, and when I meet german people for the first time they speak directly in german, not in italian. (Of course, I can speak german (with a very bad accent)).>>
It's because there are milles of Italo-Germans in Germany, a lot of whom grew up speaking German only. An Anglo-German on the other hand is a scarce species.
I've been to Amsterdam a lot of times. Whats your point? What will I 'see' then, and why does this so specifically refer to Amsterdam?
I like the pope, the pope smokes dope.
Hasche Haschisch in de Tasche, hasche immer was zum Nasche!
It's because there are milles of Italo-Germans in Germany, a lot of whom grew up speaking German only.
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yes, I know. :)
“Go to Amsterdam and you will see it.”
I live in Amsterdam and I have no idea what you are talking about.
Guest Tue May 26, 2009 7:05 pm GMT
Again, please point out where *EVERY* Dutch person assumes that they speak better English than Americans and Brits do? You are making arguments out of nothing else but thin air.
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<<Go to Amsterdam and you will see it. >>
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Exactly. I saw it myself too, in Amsterdam, The Hague and in other places.
To "a Dutch" and "Mork"
Don't pretend Dutch people don't think or say it: I've got plenty of Dutch colleagues and know 100% for sure that they do.
You wouldn't notice it because:
(a) You're Dutch so why would fellow Dutchmen or women speak to you in English and claim they speak better than native speakers? --- They do that to us, the English-speakers, while patronisingly stating how good they are at languages (and we're not, despite many of my other colleagues being FAR more mulitlingual than the Dutch ever are. The Dutch learn English and think that equals language gurus.
(b) You probably think and say it yourselves anyway.
This is my experience of being in the Netherlands.....which includes several visits to that country, including a ten week sojourn at Leiden University on a course while I was at uni in England, but mostly based in Amsterdam on other ocasions except a few days spent with friends in Geldrop, which is near Eindhoven. Amsterdam Schipol airport is only a 55 minute flight from London Heathrow and less than that from London Stansted.
First of all I never found the Dutch people to be arrogant - on the contrary - I always find them very friendly, very open and yes - very outspoken - which is one reason I like them. There is never any beating about bushes with the Dutch.
If you want a real insight into the Dutch character then I suggest you read the book "The UnDutchables" published in America by White/Boucke of CO, USA.
Of course the Dutch generally have a pretty distinctive accent when speaking English, and speaking good English is very much the norm there. The accent is quite distinguishable from the German when speaking English. For historical reasons the Dutch have a great affinity with the British, and as for the next door neighbours the Germans - they tolerate them as they have no alternative do they now? The Dutch have a similar sense of humour to that of the British up to a point I find.
The Dutch are especially fond of Scotland and the Scots - as proof of this you only have to see the large numbers of cars on Scottish roads bearing the Dutch Euro "NL" plates along with the distinctive EU emblem bearing the logo of a circle of yellow stars against blue blackground. They find Scotland's mountains and glens a very welcome change from the flatness of their own country.
Only once have I really been astonished by the accent of a Dutch person....I'm prepared to believe she really was Dutch as she told me that she had never been to the UK in her life and she must have been about 40 or so (I'm never good at determining ages accurately, especially women's) and that must be quite unusual for a Dutch person, the UK being so geographically close to the Netherlands.
Anyway, she was serving behind a counter in a store in Central Amsterdam and I was "Little Boy Lost" - according to her - and the mate I was with had gone AWOL somewhere....and she asked me if I needed assistance. I told her I did and she assisted me but I was immediately struck by her accent and faultless English...if she'd told me she was English Home Counties born and bred I'd have had absolutely no reason to disbelieve her - she was Standard EERP through and through - and it was when I asked her whereabouts in England she came from that she told me she had never set foot on British soil. She didn't look the long nosed Pinnochio type so I took it as kosher. She did enjoy tuning into British TV apparently......obviously not "East Enders" or "Coronation Street" or "Emmerdale" for that matter.....if her accent was anything to go by....more like "Doctors" or Newsnight.
Damian London SW15, are you always so condescending ?
I think you generalize a lot. Not all Dutch are fond of scotland, some prefer their country, or Italy, South France for example.
""as she told me that she had never been to the UK in her life ... and that must be quite unusual for a Dutch person, the UK being so geographically close to the Netherlands.""
Are you serious ? not all dutch people are obsessed by UK.
""as she told me that she had never been to the UK in her life ... and that must be quite unusual for a Dutch person, the UK being so geographically close to the Netherlands.""
According to my experience, most Dutch speak AMERICAN English.
Business in Holland: I still have no idea what you are talking about, and I still don't know why you prefer this irritated attitude towards us. I frankly find it to be a little generalizing and offensive. Its like me overgeneralizing a bad quality of a few English people and just blame the whole country of it as well. What is the point? If you don't think Dutch are good at English, then just say so, and don't make a big spectacle about it. Just because you happen to have some arrogant collegues the whole country is filled with arrogant people? Seriously, how old are you? And again; why is this so specifically aimed towards Amsterdam? You still fail to give me a proper answer with some valid arguments.
In my opinion Dutch people just speak English with a Dutch accent, nothing more nothing less. I've rarely seen any Dutch guy or girl having a British or American accent when talking English.
Mork Tue May 26, 2009 9:53 pm GMT
Business in Holland: I still have no idea what you are talking about, and I still don't know why you prefer this irritated attitude towards us. I frankly find it to be a little generalizing and offensive. Its like me overgeneralizing a bad quality of a few English people and just blame the whole country of it as well. What is the point? If you don't think Dutch are good at English, then just say so, and don't make a big spectacle about it. Just because you happen to have some arrogant collegues the whole country is filled with arrogant people? Seriously, how old are you? And again; why is this so specifically aimed towards Amsterdam? You still fail to give me a proper answer with some valid arguments.
In my opinion Dutch people just speak English with a Dutch accent, nothing more nothing less. I've rarely seen any Dutch guy or girl having a British or American accent when talking English.
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(1) What I'm talking about is the overrated opinion the Dutch have of their English: they think they speak it better than native speakers do.
(2) I don't "prefer an irritated attitude" towards you. I'm simply stating the facts. Bad luck if you find it irritating and offensive. To be honest, that's what I find the Dutch are.
(3) quote Mork: "Its like me overgeneralizing a bad quality of a few English people and just blame the whole country of it as well."
Look Mork, your English is so full of errors I wouldn't trust your judgement of anyone's level let alone of native speaking English people. You really think everyone should speak RP and if they don't it's "a bad quality"? BTW we say "it's poor/low quality" just like in Dutch quality doesn't take the indefinite article.
Are you Dutch? Your English isn't up to their usual intermediate level.
(4) Yes, I have said what I think regarding the English spoken by the Dutch: the Dutch often speak English quite well, sometimes fluently, mostly comprehensibly and in general at an intermediate level. This is fine, and better than most other non-English speaking countries BUT far from native-like.
(5) In my forties.
(6) I have worked in the Netherlands and met a lot of Dutch people. This is valid first-hand experience, which I do not have to justify just to flatter your ego.
(7) And you are capable of judging whether a Dutch person speaks English with a British, American or Dutch accent? How arrogant to imply that you could. Go learn English first. This is partly what annoys people about the Dutch - you seem to think that your English is so perfect that you can judge someone else's accent, completely forgetting you hear English through DUTCH EARS.
Another point, it was someone else who mentioned Amsterdam, not me. I didn't write all the posts you know! In fact very few on this forum. (I agree that it happens there though, as it does throughout the Randstad and probably elsewhere too).
Ok, who is talking about talking 'native-like'?? This topic is NOT about that, its about somebody who thinks that Dutch and Scandinavian people speak English "very well", NOT perfect. This is not some stupid little game to see who's the best, and I honestly have trouble believing that you are in your forties (maybe 4 would be more suitable). My English might be flawed here and there, but your thoughts are really plain childish and not to the point at all. I honestly also have yet to meet a Dutch person who thinks their Dutch is better than that of a native English. How can you be so sure about something like that anyway? Did you ask them?
"Stating the facts"?? Haha, this is of great comedic value coming from somebody who blames a whole country for being arrogant. What makes your experience so superior to others then? I'm curious now.
7) You are yet again missing the point. If you actually read my post, you would see that I stated it was MY OPINION, there is nothing arrogant about that. Dutch people speak English with a Dutch accent. What is so arrogant about saying that? You have to agree that its a lot more truthfull then saying "Dutch can speak great English".
I don't know who bullied you when you were working in the Netherlands but its really not necesarry to be so emo about it, nor does it help to blame the whole country for it (which is still just beyond childish IMO). Dutch people rather speak English to none-Dutch people since (like I mentioned earlier) they usually want to avoid German, which is perfectly understandable. Also, if you don't agree with somebody, its not arrogant of him/her to believe otherwise you know. But ofcourse you should know that with all that experience you had in the Netherlands (ahem).