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Romanian a MADE up language
Romanian is indeed a beautiful romance language, but isn't more closer than any othe languages, example you've cited would sound more latin in italian, see:
ADDUCERE lat = It ADDUCERE, Addurre (spoken italian) INCIPERE Lat = IT Incipere. Folgor= IT Folgore Graius= Greve, Grave Trahere lat = It Trarre.
Adducere it is a latinism but grave and folgore are in common speak very foundable
Romanian is indeed a beautiful romance language, but isn't more closer than any othe languages, example you've cited would sound more latin in italian, see:
ADDUCERE lat = It ADDUCERE, Addurre (spoken italian) INCIPERE Lat = IT Incipere. Folgor= IT Folgore Graius= Greve, Grave Trahere lat = It Trarre. Spanish; ADDUCERE----Aducir (uncommonly used) INCIPERE----iniciar? (incipiente) (used commonly) Folgor----????? Graius----grave (used commonly) Trahere---traer (used commonly)
Spanish;
PRESENT TENSE ADDUCERE----Aducir (uncommonly used) INCIPERE----iniciar? (incipiente) (used commonly) Folgor----????? Graius----grave (used commonly) Trahere---traer (used commonly) FUTURE TENSE aduciré inciaré traeré This gives it a MORE Latin feel and pronunciation.^ PAST TENSE Aduci inicie traje ---(pronounced as trahe, classical latin "trahe-re" vulgar latin, "traere".) Spanish holds similarities with Classical Latin's Grammer and syntax at times; when phonology is based on CLASSICAL LATIN. As well as Vulgar Latin.
Luis Zalot:
Aducir?? Is spanish? It must be a litterary term because i've never heard it. By the way how is called lighting bolt in spanish?
S.P.Q.R
Yeah, I think it is. But still in usage. lighting bolt--->>> iluminación; (lighting) a flash of lightning un "relámpago"; they were struck by lightning "les cayó un rayo"
*ADUCE (to bring to) < CLAS LAT ADDUCERE
INCEPE (to begin) < CLAS LAT INCIPERE FULGER (lightning bolt) < CLAS LAT FULGOR STERGE (to erase/to wipe away) < CLAS LAT EXTERGERE GREU (heavy) < CLAS LAT GRAUIS STI (to know) < ClAS LAT SCIRE TRAGE (to pull/to draw) < CLAS LAT TRAHERE* ******************************************************* Please note that all those words are common words and highly used in Romanian, very Banal words. And Romanian inherited these words from Latin, being part of everyday speech, they are not literary words like in other Romance. INCEPE Ploaia care ADUCE un FULGER asupra noastra. The rain begins that brings lighting above us El TRAGE din GREU (expression) He lives hard Romanian and Italian kept the 'CE' (che) pronunciation from Latin pronounced (CHEH) as in Latin ADDUCE (a-doo-che). In Spanish, Portuguese and French the Latin ‘CE’- (CHE) is pronounced (SE) not (CHE) LATIN –PLACERE (pla-che-re) Romanian PLACERE (pla-che-re) Italian PIACERE (pia-che-re) Spanish PLACER (pla-ser) Portuguese PRAZER (pra-zer) French PLAISIR (ple-zir)
Sorin,
I believe you explained more clearly what I was trying to say in part because ,being a native speaker, you were able to generate spontaneous examples of everyday speech to prove your point about Romanian. As for Spanish, ADUCIR does not mean TO BRING but rather TRAER is TO BRING in that tongue. One says TRAIGAME UN VASO DE AGUA and never, ADUZCAME UN VASO DE AGUA, PO FAVOR. ADUCIR has always been A learned term (un cultismo) as have its derivatives: ADUCCION and ADUCTOR --- all borrowed from Clas LAT originally for scientific and juridical uses. (Por ejemplo incluso hoy en dia, se aducen razones,pruebas,o disculpas pero nunca se aducen unas flores a la abuela). ADUCE,on the other hand, is an inherited term. It has always existed in Romanian. It has also preserved its original meaning intact. Luis is right to point out that TRAER is an inherited term in Spanish. It is attested in the written language as far back as the twelfth century according to Joan (a.k.a. Juan) Corominas not just in elevated usage but in popular semantic contexts. However ,in Spanish,it has assumed the transformed sense of TO BRING not TO PULL which is its Classical Latin and Romanian meanng. Again GRAVE in Spanish only enjoys its Latin base meaning of HEAVY within the sciences especially physics beng another learned term. INICIAR is a very Modern learned term in Spaish first attested to in 1734. It derives from Latin INITIARE not rom INCEPERE. INCEPE has always existed in Romanian as the continuator of Latin INCEPERE in form and sense. It is still the most commonly used word for BEGIN in Romanian so it would equivalate to Spanish EMPEZAR which is a denominal verb derived relatively late within Ibero-Romance from the substantive PIEZA (in ts older sense of morcel, piece) It orginally meant to cut the first piece off from something [Consult any of the etymological dictionaries of Juan (a.k.a. CAT. Joan) Corominas. Notice how both ROM and SPAN/PORT (not FREN ) have preserved the original meanings of the following (INHERITED not LEARNED) Classical Latin Words.These ROM and SPAN/PORT terms are still the most commonly used words for the LAT etymon which is given first : CAPUT(nominative), CAPITEM(accusative)= CAP CABEZA/CABECA (head) [The final C of PORT should be a C cedille] FORMOSUS= FRUMOS HERMOSO/FORMOSO(beautiful) GALLINA= GAINA GALLINA/GALINHA (hen) MENSA= MASA MESA/MESA (table) OVIS= OAIE OVEJA/OVELHA (sheep) [the animal not the Christian faithful, the flock of Christ as in FR ouailles] SUBIR= SUI SUBIR/SUBIR (to climb) TUNC= ATUNCI ENTONCES/ENTAO (then) UMERUS= UMAR HOMBRO/OMBRO (shoulder) The above was just a representative sampling not an exhaustive list. It is interesting to note that many similar lists of inherited Latin cognates could be drawn up ennumerating the basic similarities between Romanian and specifically Italian/French vocabulary or Catalan/Occitan vocabulary or between Romanian and any of the more minor Latin languages. The Romanian inherited lexicon does not fit into any one clear-cut classifiction. The inherited vocabulary is related to all sub-families at once. It also shares in most of the Basic Pan Romance lexicon. So at its core,Romanian is not a "made up" hodgepodge but the survival in isolation of a full-fledged Latin sister to all of the Neo-Latin dialects!
Well said sorin and dinis. By the way those example you've mentioned are common in italian,
In fact romanian is a romance language nor more neither minus than others. Romanian vocabulary and italian one share at lest 75% of common roots. In fact the example you've cited in romanian would sound in italian as: LA pioggia inizia/incepisce (common on sud dialects) conducendo una folgore su di noi. Caput CL= Capo It Gallina Cl= Gallian It OVis= Ovino Umerus= Omero
Dear SPQR
Thanks for the compliment! Are you as Italian as your moniker? In the same vein as your comment concerning the interrelatedness of Italian and Romanian vocabulary, I offer you this list of high-frequency words shared by the two languages: ACETO = OTET (vinager) -- [the first T of "oTet" is written with a subscript to indicate a assibilate pronuntiation /ts/] ASPETTARE = ASTEPTA (to wait) CERCARE = INCERCARE (in the sense of to try, to attempt) CHE PECCATO! = CE PACAT! (That's too bad!/What a shame!/What a pity!) CHIUDERE = (IN)CHIDE (to close) DESTARE = DESTEPTA (to awaken) GAROFANO = GAROAFA (carnation flower) GRANO = GRAU (in the sense of wheat) MELA = MAR (apple) NUOTARE = INOTA (to swim)-- [notice the transformation of LAT A to O cf. LAT natare] OCCHIALI = OCHELARI (glasses,"specs") OMBRELLO = UMBRELA (umbrella in the sense of FR parapluie) ORBO = ORB (blind) SCOPO = SCOP (goal, aim) SOTTILE = SUBTIRE (thin, slim) SOTTO = (DEDE)SUBT (below) SPINGERE = IMPINGE (to push) STRADA = STRADA (street) TAGLIARE = TAIA (to cut)---[as the everyday term] UCCIDERE = UCIDE (to kill) USCIRE = IESI ( to come out or go out)--- [The S of the ROM term has a suscript to indicate palatalization /sh/] VOLPE = VULPE (fox)
Hi Dinis, the complients are well earned. by the way yes i'm italian, more precise i'm from palermo sicily and amazing the list you posted in fact note the relateness between sicilian and rumenian:
ROMENIAN : SICILIAN VULPE VULPE IESI ISCIRE UCCIDI OCCIDERE TAIA TAJARE STRADA STRATA SUBT SUTTU SUBTIRE SOTTILI SCOP SCOPU ORB ORBU UMBRELa UMBRELLA MAR MALA GRAU GRANU OCCHELARI ''CCHIARI INOTA NATARI INCERCARE INCERACRE ASTEPTA ''SPETTA CE PCAT ! CHI PACCATU!
SPQR if u r Italian mayne you can tell me: Why the Italian and Mexican flags are so similar?
S.P.Q.R,
The Words 'Tace' and 'Ecce' in Classical latin would be pronounced as; "Tah-keh" and "éh-keh" in Italian it would be "ta-cheh" and "eh-cheh In Castilian spanish it would be "ta-theh" and Eh-theh" Regular spanish "Ta-se" and Eh-se As seen here; http://transparent.com/languagepages/Latin/FSLatin.htm
Sorin : « LATIN –PLACERE (pla-che-re) »
La <placere> se prononçait [plakere] en orolatin classique. Ce n'est qu'ultérieurement que le [k] s'est modifié : — La (accusatif) <cervum> [kerwu(m)]= Al <Hirsch> — ancien français <cerf> [t_sErf] (XIIe siècle) puis [sEr(f)] (XIIIe siècle) — français <cerf> [sER] — roumain <cerb> — occitan & gascon <cèrvi> — ancien castillan <çiervo> [t_sjerBo] — castillan <ciervo> [TjerBo] — italien <cervo> — portugais <cervo> Symboles phonétiques : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA .
La pioggia inizia/incepisce (common on sud dialects) conducendo una folgore su di noi.
La lluvia inicia a conducir una iluminacion sobre nosotros. (spanish) Conversative latin derived words in Spanish; Pluvial (rain; attributive) latin: pluvialis pluviómetro (masculine rain-gauge) pluvioso (rainy.) latin; pluviosus although "lluvioso" can be used too. Question, How would you say " I love my wife" and "love is blind" in Romanian? In the other romance languages and Classical latin it's like this.... Spanish; "(yo) amo mi mujer" and "el amor es ciego" Italian; "io amo la mia moglia" and "il amore é cieco" Classical latin; "amo mea mulier" and "amor caeca est" |