illustrated subgroup by quoting the Lord's prayer that is derived from Matthew 6:9-13 (similar text in Luke 11:2-4):
How the ROMANCE groups add-up to Latin (vulgar or Classical)
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Romance/Proto-Romance.html
(Classical Latin)
Pater noster, qui est in coelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum, fiat voluntas tua sicut in coelo et in terra. Panem nostrum cottidianum da nobis hodie et dimitte nobis dedita nostra, sicut nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in temptationem, sed libera nos a malo. Amen.
Sardinian (Campidanese)
Babbu nostu ki ses in is Celus, santificau siat su nòmini tuu, bengat a nosu su reinu tuu, siat fatta sa voluntadi tua comenti in su celu aici in sa terra. Su pani nostu de dogna di donanosidd' oi, e perdonanosì is peccaus nostus, comenti nosaturus perdonaus is depidoris nostus, no nosi lessis arrui in sa tentatzione, ma lìberanosì de tottu male. Amen.
(Sicilian)
Patri nostru cca si 'n celu, sia santificatu 'u nomi teu; venga 'u to rregnu, sia fatta 'a tò voluntati, comu 'n celu accussì 'n terra. Dani oggi 'u nostru pani quotidianu, rimeti a niàutri i nostri debiti, comu niàutri li rimettemu ai nostri debitori e nun ni lassàri cadiri 'nta'a tentazziuni e libèrani d'u mali. Amen.
Sardinian (Logudorese)
Babbu nostru k'istas in sos kelos, santificadu siat su nòmene tou, benzat a nois su regnu tou e fatta siat sa voluntade tua comente in su kelu gai in sa terra. Su pane nostru de dogni die dàdenolu oe, perdona a nois sos peccados nostros perdona a nois sos peccados nostros comente nois perdonamus sos inimigos nostros, e non nos lesses ruer in tentatzione, ma lìberanos dae su male. Amen.
Sardinian (Nuorese)
Babbu nostru, ch'istas in sos chelos, santificadu siada su lumene Tuo; venzada a nois su regnu Tuo; sia fatta sa voluntade Tua comente i'su chelu i'sa terra. Dae nos oje su pane nostru cotidianu, perdona a nois sos peccados nostros comente nois los perdonamus; libera da ogni tentassione, libera nos a male. Amen.
Italian
Padre nostro che sei nei cieli, sia santificato il tuo nome; venga il tuo regno, sia fatta la tua volontà, come in cielo così in terra. Dacci oggi il nostro pane quotidiano, rimetti a noi i nostri debiti, come noi li rimettiamo ai nostri debitori e non ci indurre in tentazione, ma liberaci dal male. Amen.
Arumanian
Tată a nostru care eşti în ţeru, s-aisească nuam a Ta, s-vină amiraliea a Ta, s-facă vrerea a Ta, aşi cumu în ţeru, aşi şi pisti locu. Pânea a noastră aţea di tute dzâlele dă-nă o nau adzâ şi nă li iartă amărtilili noastre aşi cumu li iartămu şi noi unu a altui. Şi nu nă du pri noi la cârtire, ma nă aveagli di aţelu arău. Că a Ta easte amiraliea şi puterea a Tatălui şi Hiliului şi a Spiritului Sântu, tora, totana şi tu eta etelor. Amin.
Rumanian (Banat)
Tatăl nostru careli eşci în ceruri, sfânţască-să numele Teu, vină împărăţîia Ta, fie voia Ta, prăcum în cer aşa şî pră pământ. Pânia nuastră a dă toace dzâlile dă ni-o noauă astădz şî ne iartă noauă păcacile noaştre prăcum şî noi iertăm păcătoşîlor noştri şî nu ne duce pră noi în cercare, ci ne mântuieşce dă cel rău. Că a Ta iestă împărăţîia şî pucerea şî mărirea, a Tatălui, a Fiului şî a Sfântului Duc. Amin.
Rumanian (1874)
Părintele nostru, carele escí în cerur, sânţéscă-se numele te; Via împěrăţia ta; Fie voa ta, precum în ceri, şi pe pămnt; Pănea nóstră cea de tóte ilele dă-ni-o astă-. Şi ni ertă dtoriele nóstre, precum şi noertăm dtornicilor nostri; Şi nu ne duce în ispită; ci ne scapă de cel r; Că a ta este împěrăţia şi puterea şi marirea în etern.
Amin.
Rumanian (modern)
Părintele nostru, carele esci în ceriuri, sânţească-se numele tău; Via împěrăţia ta; Fie voia ta, precum în ceri, şi pe pământ; Pănea noastră cea de toate zilele dă-ni-o astăzí. Şi ni ertă detoriele noastre, precum şi noí ertăm detornicilor nostri; Şi nu ne duce în ispită; ci ne scapă de cel rău; Că a ta este împěrăţia şi puterea şi marirea în etern. Amin.
Rumanian (another version)
Tatal nostru care esti în ceruri sfinteasca-se numele Tau; Vie imparaţia Ta; Faca-se voia Ta precum in cer asa şi pre Pamânt; Painea noastra cea de toate zilele dă-ne-o noua astăzi. Şi ne iarta noua greşalele noastre precum şi noi iertam greşitilor nostri şi nu ne duce pre noi în ispita ci ne izbaveşte de cel rău; Ca a Ta este imparaţia, slava şi puterea. In numele Tatalui, al Fiului, al Sfantului Duh. Amin.
Dalmatian (Vegliot)
Tuota nuester, che te sante intel sil: sait santificuot el naun to. Vigna el raigno to. Sait fuot la voluntuot toa, coisa in in sil, coisa in tiara. Duota costa dai el pun nuester cotidiun. E remetiaj le nustre debete, coisa nojiltri remetiaime a i nuestri debetuar. E naun ne menur in tentatiaun, mui deliberiajne dal mal. Amen.
Modern Standard French
Notre Père, qui es aux cieux, que ton nom soit sanctifié, que ton règne vienne, que ta volonté soit faite sur la terre comme au ciel. Donne-nous aujourd’hui notre pain de ce jour. Pardonne-nous nos offences comme nous pardonnons aussi à ceux qui nous ont offensés. Et ne nous soumets pas à la tentation, mais délivre-nous du mal, car c’est à toi qu’appartiennent le règne, la puissance et la gloire, aux siècles des siècles. Amen.
Old French (12th century)
Sire Pere, qui es es ceaus, sanctifiez soit li tuens uons; avigne li tuens regnes. Soit faite ta volonte, si comme ele est faite el ciel, si foit ele faite en terre. Nostre pain de chascun jor nos donne hui. Et pardone-nos nos meffais, si comme nos pardonons a cos qui maeffait nos ont. Sire, ne soffre que nos soions tempte par mauvesse temptation; mes, Sire, delivre-nos de mal. Amen.
Standard Occitan
Paire nòstre que siès dins lo cèl, que ton nom se santifique, que ton rènhe nos avenga, que ta volontat se faga sus la tèrra coma dins lo cèl. Dona-nos nòstre pan de cada jorn, perdona-nos nòstres deutes coma nosautres perdonam als nòstres debitors e fai que tombèm pas dins la tentacion mas deliura-nos del mal. Atal sia!
Catalan
Pare nostre del cel, sigui santificat el teu nom; vingui el teu Regne; faci’s la teva voluntat, com al cel, així també a la terra. Dóna’ns avui el nostre pa de cada dia; i perdona’ns les nostres ofenses, com també nosaltres hem perdonat els qui ens ofenen; i no deixis que caiguem en la temptació, ans deslliura’ns del Maligne. Amèn.
Portuguese translation
Pai nosso que estás nos céos, santificádo seja o teu nome, venha o teu Reino, seja feita a tua vontade, assim na terra, como no céu. O pão nosso de cada dia nos dá hoje, e perdoa-nós as nossas dívidas, assim como nós perdoamos aos nossos devedores, e não nos induzas à tentação, mas livra-nos do mal. Amen.
Brazilian Portuguese
Pai Nosso que estais nos céus, santificado seja o vosso nome, venha a nós o vosso reino, seja feita a vossa vontade assim na Terra como nos Céus. O pão nosso de cada dia nos dai hoje, perdoai as nossas ofensas assim como nós perdoamos a quem nos tem ofendido, não nos deixeis cair em tentação e livrai-nos do mal. Amén.
Spanish
Padre nuestro que estás en los cielos, santificado sea tu nombre. Venga tu Reino. Hágase tu voluntad, así en la tierra como en el cielo. El pan nuestro de cada día, danosle hoy(dia) y perdónanos nuestras deudas, así como nosotros perdonamos a nuestros deudores. Y no nos induzcas caer en la tentación, más líbranos de mal. Amen.
Mozarabic (extinct)
Padre nostro que yes en el ciel, santificat siad lo teu nomne. Venya a nos el teu regno. Fayadse la tua voluntade ansi en la terra como en el ciel. El nostro pan de cada dia danoslo hoi ed perdonanos las nostras offensas como nos perdonamos los qui nos offendent. Non nos layxes cader in tentacion ed liberanos del mal. Amen.
Central Asturian
Pa nuesu que tás nel altor, seya’l to nome santificáu. Amiye’l to reinu. Ensí na tierra a semeya’l altor fáigase lo que te pete. El pan nuesu ca día dámos-lu güei. Escaez les nueses deudes ensí como-y les escaecemos a los que mos deben. Nun mos dexes cayer na tentación ya llibranos de tóa roinez. Amen.
Sanabrian Asturian (Sanabrés)
Padre nuoso que estás no cielo, santificado seya el tou nome, venga a nós el tou reino, fáigase a túa voluntá así na tierra cumo no cielo. El nuoso pan de cada día, dámoslo huoi, y perdona las nuosas ofensas como nós perdonamos aos que nos ofenden. Non nos deixies cayer na tentación y llíbramos del mal. Amén.
Western Asturian
Padre nuesu que tas nu cielu. Santificáu sía'l tou nome. Venga a nós el tou reinu, fáigase la túa voluntá asina na tierra como nu cielu. El nuosu pan de cada día dánoslu güei ya perdona las nuosas ofensas como nós perdonamos a los que nos ofienden. Nun nos deixes cayer na tentación ya llíbranos del mal. Amén.
English
translation Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.
What do you think people? (what is closer to Latin?) I think all have something in common in text *syntax* but pronounciation is where it differs.
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Latin/Grammar/Latin-Pronunciation-Syllable-Accent.html
Evidence for pronunciation of Classical Latin is often difficult to interpret.
Orthography is conventionalized, and the contemporary Roman grammarians’ comments lack clarity, so that to a considerable extent it is necessary to extrapolate from later developments in Romance in order to describe it. On the whole, linguists think that Latin probably sounded something like Italian, though some features make it close to Castillian Spanish.
By the time of the Late Roman Republic (i.e. in the 1st c. BC) the Latin alphabet consisted of 23 letters, named and pronounced as shown in the following table:
Letter Name Phonetic
Value Notes
A a [a] [a:]
B be [b]
C ce [k’] [k] Initially c was written to mark a softened [k’] sound before the anterior vowels e and i and the diphthongs ae and oe, while k was written before a, o, stressed u and the consonants and was pronounced in a hard manner. Because the difference between the two consonants was not significant to the speakers and there were not grammatical functions associated with it, it became a common practice to mark both sounds by the letter c.
D de [d]
E e [] [:]
F ef [f] The letter f probably represented by classical times a labiodental sound pronounced with the lower lip touching the upper front teeth like its English equivalent) but earlier it may have been a bilabial (pronounced with the two lips touching or approaching one another).
G ge [g]
H ha [h] H was pronounced only by educated speakers even in the classical period, amd references to its loss in vulgar speech are frequent.
I i [i] [i:] [j] The [j] sound (technically called consonantal i) appears in the beginning of the words before a vowel or in the middle of the words between two vowels, as in ius [jus] and cuius ['kujus]; the compound words preserve the [j] sound of the element, that begins with it, cf. coniunx [konjunks] and adiectivum [adjektivum]. For convenience we will use the letter j (named jota) to mark the [j] sound, as it is common from the Middle Ages onward; so we will write the above words as jus, cujus, conjunx and adjectivum.
K ka [k] The usage of the letter k was preserved in several words, as Kalendae, Kaeso, Karthago (also Carthago) etc.
L el [l]
M em [m]
N en [n]
O o [] [:]
P pe [p]
Q qu [q] The letter q was written before unstressed semivowel u [=w] to mark a voiceless labiovelar sound [q], as in quinque ['qwinqw] (presented also as ['kwinkw]) with the accent on i. When u was stressed and thus not of semivowel type, there was written c instead of q, cf. cui ['kui] to whom (with accent on u) vs. qui ['qwi] who? (with accent on i).
R er [r] R was probably a tongue trill at the classical period, like in modern Castilian, but there is earlier evidence that in some positions it may have been a fricative or a flap.
S es [s] It is suggested that Latin s had a pronunciation like that of modern Castilian (with the tip, rather than the blade, raised behind the teeth, giving a lisping impression). In early Latin it was often weakened in final position.
T te [t]
V u [u] [u:] [w] The [w] sound was pronounced before vowel, as in solvo ['slw] or quartus ['kwartus], while before consonant in the beginning or the middle of the word and after consonant at the end of the word was heard [u], as in unda ['unda], natura [na'tu:ra] and natu ['natu:]. In the modern printed Latin texts u stands usually for [u] and v for [w].
X ex [ks] [gz]
Y ypsillon [y] [y:] => [i] The letter y was introduced from the contemporary Greek alphabet to mark the [y] sound, inexistent in Latin, but frequently found in the numerous Greek loan words.
Z zêta [dz] => [z] Like y, z was also introduced from the contemporary Greek alphabet to mark the [dz] sound, especially at the beginning of the words.
In addition to the consonants shown, educated Roman speakers evidently used a series of voiceless aspirated stops, written ph [], th [], ch [x], originally borrowed from Greek words but also occurring in native words (pulcher beautiful, lachrima tears, triumphus triumph, etc.) from the end of the 2nd century BC. The rh, surely not distinguished phonetically from r, was written in the beginning of the Greek loan words only (like rhetor, rhombus etc.).
The sound [] (as in English ‘sing’), written ng or gn, may not have had phonemic status (in spite of the pair annus/agnus year/lamb, in which [] may be regarded as a positional variant of [g]).
Consonants written double in the classical period were probably so pronounced (a distinction was made, for instance, between anus old woman and annus year). When consonantal i appeared intervocalically, it was always doubled in speech.
In the technical vocabulary of the Roman grammarians the consonants p, t, c, k, q, b, d, g were called mutae mute and the consonants l, m, n, r liquidae liquid.
Vowels’ Quantity and Quality
The Latin vowels differed in their quantity (i.e. time of pronunciation) into short, pronounced for a time of one mora, and long, pronounced for a time of two morae. Because the system of vowel length was lost after the classical period, it is not known with any certainty how vowels were pronounced at that period; but, because of later developments in Romance, the assumption is that the vowel-length distinctions were also associated with qualitative differences, in that short vowels were more open, or lax, than long vowels.
The distinction between short and long vowels was grammatically significant, cf. hora hour vs. horâ at (this) hour, now, and since early times the Romans tried to mark the difference by writing two consequent letters (eg. AA for [a:]), by putting an “apex” (`) as at the end of the Roman Republic or an acute accent (') as by the time of the Empire. This practice was, however, never universally and uniformly accepted. In the late Middle Ages it became conventional, especially in the manuals, to mark the long vowels by putting a stroke over the letter (eg. for [a:]) or by circumflex accent over it (eg. â for [a:]), while the short vowels were marked by a small bow over the letter (, , , , ).
In Classical Latin the length system was an essential feature of verse, even popular verse, and mistakes in vowel length were regarded as barbarous. In later times, however, many poets were obviously unable to conform to the demands of classical prosody and were criticized for allowing accent to override length distinctions.
Classical pronunciation also used some diphthongs pronounced by educated Romans much as they are spelled, especially ae (earlier ai), pronounced perhaps as an open long e [:] in rustic speech, au (rustic open long o [:]), and oe (earlier oi, late Latin e). Moreover a neutral vowel was probably used in some unaccented syllables and was written u or i (optumus, optimus best), but the latter rendering became standard.
The Roman grammarians tried to establish formal rules about determining the vowels’ length. According to them vowel before another vowel or h was always short, e.g. puer boy, veho carry. Vowels were long by nature, as in corôna crown, or by position, when a vowel was followed by two or more consonants (x being considered two consonants ), as in locûsta lobster; the combination of a mute and a liquid consonant did not, however, lenghten the preceding vowel, thus the e in tenebrae darkness, the i in arbitror think, believe and the u in volucris bird were thought short because br, tr and cr all were combinations of a mute and a liquid consonant. The diphthongs were considered always long.
Syllable (Syllaba)
Syllable consists of a vowel or a diphthong with or without one or more consonants. The Roman grammarians considered the syllable short if its vowel was short, and long if its vowel was long..They elaborated several major rules about the syllables:
A consonant between two vowels is united with the following vowel: me|di|ci|na.
The double consonants are separated between the syllables: stel|la.
A consonantal group is united with the following vowel if there is a Latin word beginning with this consonantal group, e.g. di|sci|pli|na, because in Latin there are words like scire to know and plenus full that begin wit these consonantal groups; in the word pro|vin|cia the group -nc- is divided because there is no any word in Latin to begin with nc-.
The group st is always divided anyway, though there are words in Latin that begin with it: has|ta.
The compound words are divided according to their elements: dis|tribuo, trans|eo etc.
Accent (Accentus)
According to the classical Roman grammarians the Latin accent falls on the penultimate syllable if this is long and on the antepenultimate if the penultimate is short; thus it would be pronounced ducimus ['dukimus], but ducâmus [du'kamus]. The particles –que, -ne, -ve attracted the accent to themselves, i.e. to the penultimate syllable, regardless whether its vowel was short or long: multáque, omniáve, tantáne.
The way vowels developed in prehistoric Latin suggests that there was a heavy stress accent on the first syllable of each word, but in later times the accent fell on the penultimate syllable or, when this had light quantity, on the antepenultimate (much as in modern Italian). The nature of this accent is hotly disputed: contemporary Roman grammarians seem to suggest it was a musical, tonal accent and not a stress accent; thus Varro contrasts the pitch (altitudo) of a sound with its length (longitudo) (De Lingua Latina, 210, 10-16, GS). This view is traditionally uphold by the French linguists. If this were so, the acoustic effect of Latin would be quite different from later Romance. It is possible, however, that Latin grammarians were merely imitating their Greek counterparts, as all the Latin grammar was built up on the pattern of the Greek one (See The Origin of the Latin Grammar Terms). It is implied that the fact that in Latin accent is linked with syllable vowel length makes it unlikely that such an accent was tonal. Probably it was a light stress accent that was normally accompanied by a rise in pitch; in later Latin evidence suggests that the stress became heavier.
The system of syllable quantity, connected with that of vowel length, must have given Classical Latin distinctive acoustic character. Broadly speaking, a light (or open) syllable ended in a short vowel and a heavy (or closed) syllable in a long vowel (or diphthong) or a consonant. The distinction must have been reflected to some extent in late Latin or early Romance, for, even after the system of vowel length was lost, light syllables often developed in a different way from heavy syllables.
Later changes in Pronunciation
In the course of time the classical pronunciation have gradually changed. By the epoch of the Late empire (3rd and 4th c.) the diphthongs ae and oe were equalized with the short e and au with the short o. The pronunciation of y coincided with that of i and by then the letter name ypsillon was replaced in the popular language by i graeca Greek i.
The most important phonetic change of that period was, however, the palatalization of c and g before the anterior vowels e and i and the equalized with them ae, oe and y. In this position c was changed in Gaul and Spain to [ts] and in Italy and on the Balkans to [], cf. F. ciel [sjel], Sp. cielo ['jel], Port. ceu [seu] vs. It. celo ['el], Rum. cer [er], all from L. coelum. G was palatalized in all Latin speaking world to []. The consonantal i [j] was also transformed to [].
T before short i was palatalized everywhere to [ts], if not preceded by s, t, x; thus we have natio ['natsj] nation, lectio ['lktsj] lecture, but ostium ['stjum] mouth (of river), Bruttium ['bruttjum] name of province in Southern Italy, mixtio ['mikstj] mixture, totius [t'ti:us] (with long i).
Ch and th lost their aspiration in the pronunciation and were equalized with c [k] and t.
The pronunciation of the imperial period was used later throughout the Middle Ages with some variations influenced by the particularities of the living local idioms. The International Congress of living Latin, held at Avignon in 1957, recommended the usage of the classical pronunciation. The following congresses at Lyon (1961), Strasbourg (1963), Rome (1966), Bucharest (1970), Malta (1973), Dakar (1977) and Trier (1981) reaffirmed this recommendation.
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