suomalainen, one of the other main reasons why English has simplified as far as it has is the impact of Old Norse settlement in Great Britain. Unlike the numbers of Normans who came over to such, the quantities of Old Norse speakers who settled in what are now England and Scotland were comparatively very large. Furthermore, already natively speaking a language relatively close to Old English, it would be easy for Scandinavian settlers to learn Old English without really learning it "right", which would in the long run help lead to levelling of inflection, and thus loss of cases, genders, and agreement.
A Scandinavian language
Travis, indeed! I agree. Normans have probably even more than the Celts contributed to the simplification of English. Thank you for the comment!
When you speak of "Normans" here, from the context of my previous post, I assume you mean Scandinavians, not the Normans from France (who, yes, were originally Scandinavians, but who had settled in France and became French-speaking).
You are right. I meant the Scandinavian Vikings who spoke Old Norse. Norwegian (person) is in Norwegian ´nordmann´. I´m sorry, and thanks again for the correction!
Sorry for getting a bit off topic, but I have a question for any of you Dutch(Nederlanders) or Germans. Have you ever heard Frisian being spoken? Does anyone here speak Frisian? How would you compare it to English in relation, e.g. Dutch and Afrikaans, etc?
I would also lie to comment that, as an American, I would have to say that y'all write the best English of any non-native English speaker I've ever read.;), no offense.
Dave,
Have look at :
http://www.ned.univie.ac.at/publicaties/taalgeschiedenis/nl/fries.htm
At the bottom of the page there is a sound sample. Even though I am Dutch, I wouldn't know what they are saying.
Have look at :
http://www.ned.univie.ac.at/publicaties/taalgeschiedenis/nl/fries.htm
At the bottom of the page there is a sound sample. Even though I am Dutch, I wouldn't know what they are saying.
=>Sorry for getting a bit off topic, but I have a question for any of you Dutch(Nederlanders) or Germans. Have you ever heard Frisian being spoken? Does anyone here speak Frisian? How would you compare it to English in relation, e.g. Dutch and Afrikaans, etc? <=
Yes I've heard (West)Frisian many times and it's 'understandable'.
It's relation to English...
Well, let's just say that if you'd strip English from all the Latin and most of the Old Norse loans .... you'd end up with something that would look almost like Frisian.
(An English speaker would probably not understand a frisian eventhough some words will sound very familiar (such as 'cheese', 'monday' and 'grey' which are pronounced virtually the same.)
And JO, the fake Dutchman,
You are not just, you're a Belgian and a loser.
Yes I've heard (West)Frisian many times and it's 'understandable'.
It's relation to English...
Well, let's just say that if you'd strip English from all the Latin and most of the Old Norse loans .... you'd end up with something that would look almost like Frisian.
(An English speaker would probably not understand a frisian eventhough some words will sound very familiar (such as 'cheese', 'monday' and 'grey' which are pronounced virtually the same.)
And JO, the fake Dutchman,
You are not just, you're a Belgian and a loser.
Says Sander:
«Yes I've heard (West)Frisian many times and it's 'understandable'.»
West Frisian , has got nothing to do with Frisian.
West Frisian is kopje Noord Holland, where I come from.
If it is not, let me know where West Friesland is, please?
West Frisian is understandable to all Dutch.
Frisian is spoken in the province of Friesland only and certainly not in
West-Friesland. West-Frisians are the real Hollanders!
«And JO, the fake Dutchman.»
Fake why?? You weren't happy with what I quoted, is written in my Dutch passport? Why , if I were Belgian, would I want to be Dutch?
What I wouldn't want be is a Brabander, like you.
«Yes I've heard (West)Frisian many times and it's 'understandable'.»
West Frisian , has got nothing to do with Frisian.
West Frisian is kopje Noord Holland, where I come from.
If it is not, let me know where West Friesland is, please?
West Frisian is understandable to all Dutch.
Frisian is spoken in the province of Friesland only and certainly not in
West-Friesland. West-Frisians are the real Hollanders!
«And JO, the fake Dutchman.»
Fake why?? You weren't happy with what I quoted, is written in my Dutch passport? Why , if I were Belgian, would I want to be Dutch?
What I wouldn't want be is a Brabander, like you.
Says Sanders:
«Well, let's just say that if you'd strip English from all the Latin and most of the Old Norse loans .... you'd end up with something that would look almost like Frisian. »
If you 'd strip English from all the Latin??????????
You would have Latin!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you have only heard West Frisian you have never heard Frisian and therefore can't comment.
If you'd strip all the Latin and old Norse, yes, then you would have an old Saxon language.
Como tu es burro !!!!!!!!!
«Well, let's just say that if you'd strip English from all the Latin and most of the Old Norse loans .... you'd end up with something that would look almost like Frisian. »
If you 'd strip English from all the Latin??????????
You would have Latin!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you have only heard West Frisian you have never heard Frisian and therefore can't comment.
If you'd strip all the Latin and old Norse, yes, then you would have an old Saxon language.
Como tu es burro !!!!!!!!!
=>West Frisian , has got nothing to do with Frisian.
West Frisian is kopje Noord Holland, where I come from.
If it is not, let me know where West Friesland is, please?
West Frisian is understandable to all Dutch.
Frisian is spoken in the province of Friesland only and certainly not in
West-Friesland. West-Frisians are the real Hollanders! <=
You have no idea what you're talking about are you?! WEST FRISIAN is the kind of Frisian spoken in the Netherlands! EAST FRISIAN is spoken in Germany and Denmark! It the classification!
=>If you 'd strip English from all the Latin??????????
You would have Latin!!!!!!!!!!!!! <=
Read again, moron.
=>If you have only heard West Frisian you have never heard Frisian and therefore can't comment. <=
You have no knowledge about this subject whatsoever so shut up.<=
"Frisian" doesn't exist as such.Idiot.
=>If you'd strip all the Latin and old Norse, yes, then you would have an old Saxon language. <=
No you wouldn't ,you'd have something that closely resembles (Old)Frisian.
West Frisian is kopje Noord Holland, where I come from.
If it is not, let me know where West Friesland is, please?
West Frisian is understandable to all Dutch.
Frisian is spoken in the province of Friesland only and certainly not in
West-Friesland. West-Frisians are the real Hollanders! <=
You have no idea what you're talking about are you?! WEST FRISIAN is the kind of Frisian spoken in the Netherlands! EAST FRISIAN is spoken in Germany and Denmark! It the classification!
=>If you 'd strip English from all the Latin??????????
You would have Latin!!!!!!!!!!!!! <=
Read again, moron.
=>If you have only heard West Frisian you have never heard Frisian and therefore can't comment. <=
You have no knowledge about this subject whatsoever so shut up.<=
"Frisian" doesn't exist as such.Idiot.
=>If you'd strip all the Latin and old Norse, yes, then you would have an old Saxon language. <=
No you wouldn't ,you'd have something that closely resembles (Old)Frisian.
Sanders says:
«You have no idea what you're talking about are you?! WEST FRISIAN is the kind of Frisian spoken in the Netherlands! EAST FRISIAN is spoken in Germany and Denmark! It the classification! »
In the Netherlands there is West -Friesland and Friesland.
West -Friesland is in the province of Noord Holland. What do they speak in the town of Hoorn? Ask them.
What do they speak in Groningen ? Fries all of a sudden?
In Germany they have Ost-Friezen but in the Netherlands, West Friezen live in Noord-Holland and they speak Dutch. Friezen live in Friesland and speak Frisian. Sorry, you got it wrong again.
Je kunt op je kop gaan staan maar hier kun je je zelf niet uitllullen.
( You can go and stand on your head, but there is no way out)
Have you already stripped the English language of all the saxon words and what did you get?? Frisian?
«You have no idea what you're talking about are you?! WEST FRISIAN is the kind of Frisian spoken in the Netherlands! EAST FRISIAN is spoken in Germany and Denmark! It the classification! »
In the Netherlands there is West -Friesland and Friesland.
West -Friesland is in the province of Noord Holland. What do they speak in the town of Hoorn? Ask them.
What do they speak in Groningen ? Fries all of a sudden?
In Germany they have Ost-Friezen but in the Netherlands, West Friezen live in Noord-Holland and they speak Dutch. Friezen live in Friesland and speak Frisian. Sorry, you got it wrong again.
Je kunt op je kop gaan staan maar hier kun je je zelf niet uitllullen.
( You can go and stand on your head, but there is no way out)
Have you already stripped the English language of all the saxon words and what did you get?? Frisian?
=>In the Netherlands there is West -Friesland and Friesland.
West -Friesland is in the province of Noord Holland. What do they speak in the town of Hoorn? Ask them.
What do they speak in Groningen ? Fries all of a sudden?
In Germany they have Ost-Friezen but in the Netherlands, West Friezen live in Noord-Holland and they speak Dutch. Friezen live in Friesland and speak Frisian. Sorry, you got it wrong again.
<=
What the... You are a total idiot.
Frisians in the Netherlands speak WEST FRISIAN just as you speake a WEST germanic language.
West -Friesland is in the province of Noord Holland. What do they speak in the town of Hoorn? Ask them.
What do they speak in Groningen ? Fries all of a sudden?
In Germany they have Ost-Friezen but in the Netherlands, West Friezen live in Noord-Holland and they speak Dutch. Friezen live in Friesland and speak Frisian. Sorry, you got it wrong again.
<=
What the... You are a total idiot.
Frisians in the Netherlands speak WEST FRISIAN just as you speake a WEST germanic language.
Please don't make this more complicated than it really is:
Frisian is divided into three branches:
- North Frisian in Northern Friesland in Schleswig-Holstein in Germany (ca. 10.000 speakers)
- East Frisian in Saterland, in the extreme south of the region Eastern Friesland in Niedersachsen in north-western Germany (ca. 2000 speakers)
- The kind of Frisian spoken in the province of Fryslan in north-eastern Netherlands (ca. 350.000 speakers). Often called Wester-Lauwers Frisian, because it is spoken to the west of the river Lauwers.
From a Frisian perspective it seems natural to call the Frisian of Fryslan "west Frisian", because it is the western-most version of Frisian. But because Frisian in the Netherlands is seen as one branch, as a single unit, and because the number of Frisian speakers is so much higher in the Netherlands than in Germany, thus making the Frisian of Fryslan the only de facto Frisian, it often just called "Fries" in Dutch.
In Dutch terminology "West Frisian" normally means the Dutch dialect spoken in the region West-Friesland in the province of Noord-Holland, originally inhabited by Frisians, who thus probably left a Frisian substratum in the Dutch dialect of West-Friesland.
Frisian is divided into three branches:
- North Frisian in Northern Friesland in Schleswig-Holstein in Germany (ca. 10.000 speakers)
- East Frisian in Saterland, in the extreme south of the region Eastern Friesland in Niedersachsen in north-western Germany (ca. 2000 speakers)
- The kind of Frisian spoken in the province of Fryslan in north-eastern Netherlands (ca. 350.000 speakers). Often called Wester-Lauwers Frisian, because it is spoken to the west of the river Lauwers.
From a Frisian perspective it seems natural to call the Frisian of Fryslan "west Frisian", because it is the western-most version of Frisian. But because Frisian in the Netherlands is seen as one branch, as a single unit, and because the number of Frisian speakers is so much higher in the Netherlands than in Germany, thus making the Frisian of Fryslan the only de facto Frisian, it often just called "Fries" in Dutch.
In Dutch terminology "West Frisian" normally means the Dutch dialect spoken in the region West-Friesland in the province of Noord-Holland, originally inhabited by Frisians, who thus probably left a Frisian substratum in the Dutch dialect of West-Friesland.
The West Frisian language (Frysk) is a language spoken mostly in the province of Fryslân in the north of the Netherlands. West Frisian is the name by which this language is usually known outside of the Netherlands, to distinguish it from the closely related languages of East Frisian and North Frisian, which are spoken in Germany. Within the Netherlands, however, the term West Frisian (West-Fries) is used to indicate a Dutch dialect spoken in the province of North Holland, while the language of the province of Fryslân is virtually always just called Frisian: Fries in Dutch, and Frysk in Frisian.
But since the posting was in English. I was right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language
But since the posting was in English. I was right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Frisian_language