Thanks for the info, guys. I read on a Frisian website, that when American soldiers were liberating the Frisian area of the Netherlands during WWII, the Americans and the Frisians were able to communicate with each other, each speaking their own language. Can anyone confirm this?
A Scandinavian language
Well, the Dutch(which includes the Frisians) tried to listen to the BBC as much as they could (eventhough it was forbidden) so that might have taught them a bit of English.But the idea that they could speak with eacthother each speaking their own languages.... hmm I think that is a bit exaggerated.But it's very well possible that they could (with effort) understand eachother a little bit ,
"myn namme is (Dave)" for example and "my name is (Dave)" sound almost the same.
"myn namme is (Dave)" for example and "my name is (Dave)" sound almost the same.
"Good bread and good cheese is good English and good Freese."
It works only in writing, not when spoken!
It works only in writing, not when spoken!
Hey start a new thread about the Frisian language(s) if you want but this thread is reserved for Scandinavian languages, and as far as I know, Frisian is not one of them.
As a Finn I can see the differences and similarities between the Scandinavian languages as an outsider. In my opinion Swedish spoken on YLE VEGA (the public radio channel for Swedish speakers) is the easiest for me to understand and to speak, mainly because the pronounciation is similar to Finnish. (ie. stress lies always on the first syllable)
Swedish spoken in Sweden is slightly more difficult, because of the double-stress 'sing song' system that makes it sometimes difficult to distinguish between words, it seems to me as if the words would be sliced in two parts.
Norwegian sounds like Danish spoken with a Swedish accent, comprehensible to certain extent. Danish, on the other hand, is entirely incomprehensible for me when spoken.
When it comes to reading a text in any of these languages, I can even read not only Swedish, Danish and Norwegian Bokmål texts but also some Nynorsk texts. That looks actually like some Finland-Swedish dialects spoken in Ostrobothnia.
From what I have heard, Finland-Swedish is the most understood Scandinavian 'accent' and I will use it whenever travelling in Scandinavia (and along Finnish coastline) unless it becomes impossible and I have to speak English. I propose Finland-Swedish accent to be the official spoken form (cf. riksmål) of common Scandinavian because it is 1) relatively easy to understand, 2) relatively easy to pronounce and 3) it has retained very much of the common Nordic vocabulary (like 'håxa', meaning "to apprehend/grasp").
PS: Jag hoppas att alla nordbor skall tala deras språk så tydligt som möjligt när de talar med människor från andra nordiska länder. Detta gäller speciellt danskar, kasta potatisen (heter det 'kartoffeln' på danska?) ur munnen! ;-)
As a Finn I can see the differences and similarities between the Scandinavian languages as an outsider. In my opinion Swedish spoken on YLE VEGA (the public radio channel for Swedish speakers) is the easiest for me to understand and to speak, mainly because the pronounciation is similar to Finnish. (ie. stress lies always on the first syllable)
Swedish spoken in Sweden is slightly more difficult, because of the double-stress 'sing song' system that makes it sometimes difficult to distinguish between words, it seems to me as if the words would be sliced in two parts.
Norwegian sounds like Danish spoken with a Swedish accent, comprehensible to certain extent. Danish, on the other hand, is entirely incomprehensible for me when spoken.
When it comes to reading a text in any of these languages, I can even read not only Swedish, Danish and Norwegian Bokmål texts but also some Nynorsk texts. That looks actually like some Finland-Swedish dialects spoken in Ostrobothnia.
From what I have heard, Finland-Swedish is the most understood Scandinavian 'accent' and I will use it whenever travelling in Scandinavia (and along Finnish coastline) unless it becomes impossible and I have to speak English. I propose Finland-Swedish accent to be the official spoken form (cf. riksmål) of common Scandinavian because it is 1) relatively easy to understand, 2) relatively easy to pronounce and 3) it has retained very much of the common Nordic vocabulary (like 'håxa', meaning "to apprehend/grasp").
PS: Jag hoppas att alla nordbor skall tala deras språk så tydligt som möjligt när de talar med människor från andra nordiska länder. Detta gäller speciellt danskar, kasta potatisen (heter det 'kartoffeln' på danska?) ur munnen! ;-)
« Jag hoppas att alla nordbor skall tala deras språk så tydligt som möjligt när de talar med människor från andra nordiska länder. Detta gäller speciellt danskar, kasta potatisen (heter det 'kartoffeln' på danska ?) ur munnen ! »
Je ne sais pas de quoi tu parles ni comment tu prononces ces mots. Mais en tout cas la forme écrite de cette langue me paraît très belle.
Je ne sais pas de quoi tu parles ni comment tu prononces ces mots. Mais en tout cas la forme écrite de cette langue me paraît très belle.
"I propose Finland-Swedish accent to be the official spoken form (cf. riksmål) of common Scandinavian"
Perkele...
Well, you can count me out. Speaking clearly to other Scandinavians is one thing, but to impose a new official spoken form... Nae, jag tror inte det.
Perkele...
Well, you can count me out. Speaking clearly to other Scandinavians is one thing, but to impose a new official spoken form... Nae, jag tror inte det.
If we should have a standard Scandinavian it shoould be Norwegian, because it's in the middle between Danish and Swedish!
But of course we don't need a standard Scandinavian. That's what makes us better than other people in the western world: that everybody can speak as their mother tongue without confirming to any "standard". If we change our speech, it's just for the sake of understanding, not for snobbery!
But of course we don't need a standard Scandinavian. That's what makes us better than other people in the western world: that everybody can speak as their mother tongue without confirming to any "standard". If we change our speech, it's just for the sake of understanding, not for snobbery!
By the way, I like to listen to Finnish Swedish...it's sounds poetic, like a voice from olden times (mainly because it resembles Old Norse, which didn't have sing-song tonems either, just like Icelandic).
I agree that if there were to be a single standard Scandinavian language, it should be based on Norwegian, most likely Bokmål due to the general dominance of East North Germanic dialects in Scandinavia today, at least for the most part. The reason why I say for the most part is that it might be a good idea to extricate tone-stress, or at least make it optional, to make life easier for Danes and Finland-Swedes, and to remove features of Bokmål which are more like Danish than Swedish and spoken Norwegian, to mitigate Bokmål's nature as effectively spelling-pronounced Danish that just happens to have three genders and tone-stress rather than two genders and the stød.
Travis:
Tone-stress is already optional, as a few Norwegian dialects (in western and northern Norway) lack tones.
Tone-stress is already optional, as a few Norwegian dialects (in western and northern Norway) lack tones.
I think many here don´t and did not know that the differences form the beginning was smallest between Danish and Swedish, and a proof of that is for example how the three languages pronunce "stone" in Swedish you say "sten" Danish they pronunce it "stin" something like that but in Norwegian it´s "stein", notice "ei" tow vowles-sounds so Norwegian is not in every case between Danish and Swedish but extremely often they are.
*continuing the babble*
<babelfishing my reply in french>
greg, celui était suédois et il est vraiment beau :)
And well Texas Ranger, I was just half-serious and my point wasn't actually that everyone should speak finlandssvenska but that if there were a need for a pan-Scandinavian notice and there were resources for notifying in only one language form, it should be standard finlandssvenska for its clarity, with as common words as possible.
A common-scandinavian language form should be Bokmål with two cases and perhaps Swedish declension system (-or -ar -er being older than the Danish -er -er -er system). Dano-Norwegian -kk- should be used instead of -ck-, but on the other hand there should be ä and ö. (this case is really very insignificant, thus it could also be the other way around without me whining).
I'm very strongly pro mother tongues (wow what a clumsy expression), meaning that every Scandinavian should really use a clearly spoken version of their _own_ language (unless they really can't the other one), when talking to a fellow Scandinavian speaking another Scandinavian language, not a mixture nor English. That's reserved for extreme situations IMO. Dialects rock, and the best thing about Finland-Swedish is of course the poetic sound and rhytm, apart from its clarity. :)
And The Swede, also some Ostrobothnian Swedish dialects have diphtongs, like -ei-, -öi- and -öy-. "Einstein va' liksåm äin stäin, itt' någo 'en sten'." Notice that even Mannerheim is not pronounced Mannerhaim but Mannärhejm.
PS (in Swedish): Kan nån svensk säja va ni tycker om svenskans situation i Finland, ger ni ens skit över det eller vore det helt hemskt om det hela finlandssvenskhetet skulle dö ut? Finlandssvenskar e ju dem som sysslar hårdast med svensk-finsk förhållanden... Å va sku ni tycka om nån kom å prata med er liksom Mumintrollet? :) Sku man bli underhållen, förtjust eller va'? Ja tyckä att de e helt skoj när ni svenskar säjer "hwit" å vi säjer "schitt" liksom om vi pratade engelska. :-D
Förresten, när ja va i Sthlm förra året blev hotellpersonalen en bit underhållen eftersom ja' prata' int' lika väl svenska som idag å fråga' om "kassen" i stället för "kassan" :D (ja e ju helt finsk ja.)
<babelfishing my reply in french>
greg, celui était suédois et il est vraiment beau :)
And well Texas Ranger, I was just half-serious and my point wasn't actually that everyone should speak finlandssvenska but that if there were a need for a pan-Scandinavian notice and there were resources for notifying in only one language form, it should be standard finlandssvenska for its clarity, with as common words as possible.
A common-scandinavian language form should be Bokmål with two cases and perhaps Swedish declension system (-or -ar -er being older than the Danish -er -er -er system). Dano-Norwegian -kk- should be used instead of -ck-, but on the other hand there should be ä and ö. (this case is really very insignificant, thus it could also be the other way around without me whining).
I'm very strongly pro mother tongues (wow what a clumsy expression), meaning that every Scandinavian should really use a clearly spoken version of their _own_ language (unless they really can't the other one), when talking to a fellow Scandinavian speaking another Scandinavian language, not a mixture nor English. That's reserved for extreme situations IMO. Dialects rock, and the best thing about Finland-Swedish is of course the poetic sound and rhytm, apart from its clarity. :)
And The Swede, also some Ostrobothnian Swedish dialects have diphtongs, like -ei-, -öi- and -öy-. "Einstein va' liksåm äin stäin, itt' någo 'en sten'." Notice that even Mannerheim is not pronounced Mannerhaim but Mannärhejm.
PS (in Swedish): Kan nån svensk säja va ni tycker om svenskans situation i Finland, ger ni ens skit över det eller vore det helt hemskt om det hela finlandssvenskhetet skulle dö ut? Finlandssvenskar e ju dem som sysslar hårdast med svensk-finsk förhållanden... Å va sku ni tycka om nån kom å prata med er liksom Mumintrollet? :) Sku man bli underhållen, förtjust eller va'? Ja tyckä att de e helt skoj när ni svenskar säjer "hwit" å vi säjer "schitt" liksom om vi pratade engelska. :-D
Förresten, när ja va i Sthlm förra året blev hotellpersonalen en bit underhållen eftersom ja' prata' int' lika väl svenska som idag å fråga' om "kassen" i stället för "kassan" :D (ja e ju helt finsk ja.)
Yeah, I understand you weren't 100% serious :)
"I'm very strongly pro mother tongues (wow what a clumsy expression), meaning that every Scandinavian should really use a clearly spoken version of their _own_ language". - right on!!
"Dialects rock" - damn straight!!
However, if a Swede and a Dane (for example) don't understand each other when speaking their native languages, why not switch to English? I don't see any problem with that. Extreme you say, not more than when a Swede and a German don't understand the other one's language and switch to English. I see your point, though, the Scandinavian languages are so much alike English shouldn't have to be an option. Still, you're looking for unity, and that's fine.
Jag vet inte hur länge ni läser svenska i skolan, bara att ni gör det, och att det är rätt många som inte vill läsa svenska utan hellre skulle läsa nåt annat språk som man har mer nytta av. Detta kan man ju verkligen förstå; varför skulle ni läsa svenska när vi inte läser finska i skolan? Å andra sidan tycker jag att det är bra att ni lär er svenska, och där kommer också frågan om finlandsvenskheten upp, alltså banden oss emellan, där ju språket spelar en väsentlig roll. Skulle finlandsvenskheten dö ut av någon anledning så vore det för jävligt/perkele! Svensk-Finsk förhållandena skulle ju försämras och de fördomar som finns mellan oss skulle blomstra ytterligare. Jag har förresten träffat flera finlandsvenskar och finnar. Man blir för det mesta, om jag ska vara helt ärlig, både underhållen och förtjust :) De prata' ganska roolikt.
"I'm very strongly pro mother tongues (wow what a clumsy expression), meaning that every Scandinavian should really use a clearly spoken version of their _own_ language". - right on!!
"Dialects rock" - damn straight!!
However, if a Swede and a Dane (for example) don't understand each other when speaking their native languages, why not switch to English? I don't see any problem with that. Extreme you say, not more than when a Swede and a German don't understand the other one's language and switch to English. I see your point, though, the Scandinavian languages are so much alike English shouldn't have to be an option. Still, you're looking for unity, and that's fine.
Jag vet inte hur länge ni läser svenska i skolan, bara att ni gör det, och att det är rätt många som inte vill läsa svenska utan hellre skulle läsa nåt annat språk som man har mer nytta av. Detta kan man ju verkligen förstå; varför skulle ni läsa svenska när vi inte läser finska i skolan? Å andra sidan tycker jag att det är bra att ni lär er svenska, och där kommer också frågan om finlandsvenskheten upp, alltså banden oss emellan, där ju språket spelar en väsentlig roll. Skulle finlandsvenskheten dö ut av någon anledning så vore det för jävligt/perkele! Svensk-Finsk förhållandena skulle ju försämras och de fördomar som finns mellan oss skulle blomstra ytterligare. Jag har förresten träffat flera finlandsvenskar och finnar. Man blir för det mesta, om jag ska vara helt ärlig, både underhållen och förtjust :) De prata' ganska roolikt.