Vive Le Quebec libre
<<English is not spoken there, except by tourists, foreign businessmen and some people who work in European administration >>
Naah. I've been to the Netherlands numerous times (I live near the border) and absolutely everyone I've met (OK, at least between the ages of about 10 and 60) can/could speak English. Obviously, Dutch is the 'default' language because it's their native language, so unless you talk to people in English, you'll rarely hear them speaking English.
=>Naah. I've been to the Netherlands numerous times (I live near the border) and absolutely everyone I've met (OK, at least between the ages of about 10 and 60) can/could speak English. Obviously, Dutch is the 'default' language because it's their native language, so unless you talk to people in English, you'll rarely hear them speaking English. <=
Exactly, this is the right perception of the Netherlands*.
*Unless your a self proclaimed 'Latin' nationalist, in that case read the bellow:
The Netherlands have turned into a cultural Anglo-Saxon wasteland, the Dutch language has been completely lost and they all speak English.Mc Donalds restaurants are everywhere ,they all hate us, the überLatins and our languages,negotiations about becoming the US' 52th state will start in 2006.Damn the 'United Statians'and Vive le Quebec mort!
Some of the best English in Europe is spoken in the Netherlands -- far better than anything I heard in England! (Sorry, Candy, but I was in awe.)
I don't remember seeing any McDonald's there. Although London had a very nice one -- never ate there, but I popped in from time to time to take a piss ... very conveniently located ....
<<far better than anything I heard in England! (Sorry, Candy, but I was in awe.) >>
Uriel, in fact I couldn't agree more. I've even heard people say that one of the best places in the world to learn English is the Netherlands, because it's so fluent and clear. None of this hideous British pronunciation - like the way they say the word twenty in my town as 'twe-eh'.
Sander, isn't it funny how people here say the Dutch can't speak English when they want to denigrate the importance of English, but say that the Netherlands is totally anglicised when they want to insult YOU! :-)
Yes, they think I'm just as paranoid as they are about 'Anglo Saxon' conquering the world , with the Überlatin as the last warriors for civilazation....lol
Et bien! O__O ça s'enflamme ici!
Candy
I have not insulted the english-speaking canadians. I was responding to Steve K who really made me angry:"It is the rest of Canada that suffers by having Quebec in." It sounds like revisionism to me.
«[How are they bitter?? What does it take away from 'Anglos' that Québec has a different culture, even a vibrant culture? From what I've read here and elsewhere, it seems that French-speaking Canadians are the 'bitter' ones for having to share a continent with so many English-speakers, whom they often seem to detest]...[A high percentage of the people of Scotland probably live within 150 km of England - they still have their own *non-English* culture!]
I'm sorry but I have never said nor thought that the "anglos" were inferior to the quebecois. First you have to know that the term "anglo" is not an insult and has nothing to do with the "anglo-saxon/latin" war that goes on this forum. It's a very common expression used in québécois french to refer to the "canadiens anglais". I mean...It's just shorter and easier to tell or type.
Then, I want to be clear: the only thing that makes me bitter is to have a canadian passport whereas I have never felt canadian in my life. Canada has never been thought as a bilingual country by its founders. It has been an english-speaking country in which the people of Québec has always had to struggle to protect its fundamental rights. I'm very proud of my country. Very few peoples in the world will have resist as much as the quebecois to protect their language and culture. You say the scottish still have their own *non-English* culture? Okay, they feel scottish but... How many scottish and irish still speak gaelic, again?
«You don't think perhaps this has more to do with the inhospitable climate of Canada further north? What's the relevance of this figure anyway? To state something paralysingly obvious, Vancouver is 1000s of km from Toronto.»
Well, I'm not saying rubbish...I'm just reporting facts.
English-canadians have always suffered from what they describe as a national idendity crisis. "What is a canadian?" a canadian newspaper recently asked. In answer to that question, which canadian have been asking themselves for as long as the country has existed, the best most of them can do is define themselves in negative terms: they are not americans. This has led to a deep sense of inferiority.
Part of the problem with Canada's lack of identity is historical. The country started off as french, after all, and then became british. It has only existed in its present form for 137 years, and is probably too young to have developed a sense of its own cultural identity. Besides, in recent years, the canadian governement has even been trying to manufacture a sense of national identity. Every TV channel, for instance, shows a daily "Heritage Minute" (pure propaganda) in which canadians are told about people and events from their history of whom they should be proud.
Yes! there is a geographical question. Canada comprises 32 million people inhabitating almost 10 million square kilometres, a terrain so varied that people are more likely to have a sense of provincial identity than a national one.
In fact, people in canadian provinces are more likely to find similar people to them by looking south towards the USA. Of course, I'm not blaming them for living near the USA (I do too!) but this geographical fact has its consequences.
Someone from British Columbia would feel perfecly at home in Washington State, for instance, because Vancouver and Seattle are similar, as are Ontario and Michigan. Which, of course, aggravates the paranoia most canadians have about being indistinguishable from their southern neighbors. Oh! obviously one could say that americans are indistinguishable from canadians, but eh, it never works like that.
The truth, however, is that the cultural identity of the Quebecois, by virtue of being french-speaking, has always been more sure than that of their english-speaking "compatriots" who paradoxically have a superiority complex towards us. So, yes I allow myself to say they are "bitter". Just one question: Have you ever heard any english-canadian say something nice about Québec or the quebecois? I haven't.
"I would never say that Québec is a 'pale imitation' of French culture. "
There are of course big differences between Canada and the USA. Canada is a far more "european society", with strict control of gun ownership, universal health care, and a more liberal attitude towards criminal punishment. However, culturally speaking, English-Canada looks like an imitation of the USA.
Indeed, you couldn't say that Québec is a "pale imitation" of french culture since Québec was separated from France more than 3 centuries ago, and so, has developed its own culture ;)
" <<English is not spoken there, except by tourists, foreign businessmen and some people who work in European administration >>
Naah. I've been to the Netherlands numerous times (I live near the border) and absolutely everyone I've met (OK, at least between the ages of about 10 and 60) can/could speak English. Obviously, Dutch is the 'default' language because it's their native language, so unless you talk to people in English, you'll rarely hear them speaking English. "
Candy, my sentence was about Brussels - Belgium, not Netherlands !
It is true that in netherlands english has really a role of second language. this situation is quite unusual in Europe. I could also be find in Sacandinavia for what I have heard, but is not the case in Brussels.
" Indeed, you couldn't say that Québec is a "pale imitation" of french culture since Québec was separated from France more than 3 centuries ago, and so, has developed its own culture ;) "
Sébastien is right, the culture of Quebec is really an independant culture, with its own identity linked with but different than the French one, mainly because it is a north American version of french culture, with deeply different history, people, climate and influences than Europe.
I could also be find in Sacandinavia =
it could also be found in Scandinavia
Anglo Canadians are like people who can't get a green card to the US. If you watch CBC newsworld or other CBC programs, they are identical to U.S. ones. If you go to a Wal Mart in Sherbrooke you feel the Latinicity of the place. There is a common culture between say Matamoros and Sherbrooke then say Sherbrooke and Sudbury. I don't understand it, but that is just the way it is.
Estará físicamente separado, pero muchos franceses viajan a Québec para vivir ahí, así que tiene muchas similitudes con Francia.
It many be physically separated, but many French travel to Quebec to stay and live, so it has many similarities with France.
"I would never say that Québec is a 'pale imitation' of French culture. >=
That's ridiculous, it's like say that Mexico is a pale imatation of Spain, we have a lot in common but have differences too, in the same way that a son is not identical to his mother.
It's like saying that England and the USA are the same thing because both are Anglo Saxon countries.
Or that Brazil and Portugal are the just clones in differents continents.
Québec is the only son of France in North America, thus has a lot in common with France, but also has unique characteristics.
Aldebarán u always using the "Mexico Example"...
Then why is it okay to say Canada is a "pale imitation" of the US?