Vive Le Quebec libre

Uriel   Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:23 pm GMT
And repeatedly electing Quebecers prime minister must be a new form of oppression I haven't heard of.
Steve K   Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:53 pm GMT
In the minds of the primitive Latin nationalists here, an English speaker, especially of the North American variety, is by definition intolerant and ignorant by birth, whereas the Latin is some kind of more noble yet inexplicably underdog figure.

Reality is quite different. In Canada 10% of Anglophone parents send their kids to school entirely in French in French immersion schools which cannot meet the demand. This despite the fact that French is, outside of Quebec, New Brunswick and the Federal civil service, a relatively useless language in North America, with only 7 million speakers.

Contrast this with the situation in Belgium, for example. How many French speaking Belgians make an effort to learn Dutch, the majority language of their country and a language spoken by 24 million people located all around them, with a history of culture and art. If you add the associated language groups of Low German (the former language of the Hanseatic league), you would think there would be a good argument for learning the language. Why do they not? Cultural arrogance.

Simlarly, how many Castillian speakers in Spain or even in Catalonia bother to learn Catalan, even though Cataloonia is the most economically vibrant part of the country. Not many. Why? Cultural arrogance.

As to Latin America, I wonder how many Spanish speakers bother to learn any native languages even in countries where the natives are the majority.
Sander   Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:59 pm GMT
=>Contrast this with the situation in Belgium, for example. How many French speaking Belgians make an effort to learn Dutch, the majority language of their country and a language spoken by 24 million people located all around them, with a history of culture and art. If you add the associated language groups of Low German (the former language of the Hanseatic league), you would think there would be a good argument for learning the language. Why do they not? Cultural arrogance. <=

DAMNIT this is so true!
Uriel   Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:26 pm GMT
Steve K Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:53 pm GMT
In the minds of the primitive Latin nationalists here, an English speaker, especially of the North American variety, is by definition intolerant and ignorant by birth, whereas the Latin is some kind of more noble yet inexplicably underdog figure.

You put your finger right on it!
Sander   Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:37 pm GMT
err.

It's DAMMIT , but nevertheless Steve K SPOT ON!!!
greg   Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:00 pm GMT
Steve K : tu fais des efforts désespérés pour faire glisser le débat Québec & Canada francophone / Canada anglophone vers une opposition francophone / non-francophone que tu situes en Europe. Tu te rends coupable des mêmes méfaits que tu attribues à ceux que tu juges diaboliser les anglophones sur tous les continents. La ficelle est trop grosse... Cela dit, viens nous rejoindre sur www.langcafe.net . Uriel et Candy y sont déjà.

Candy : <faire mouche> = "atteindre le centre d'une cible".

Uriel : tous les Québécois ne sont pas forcément indépendantistes. Tous les premiers ministres canadiens d'origine québécoise non plus. D'autre part je crois que la discussion de 37 pages et 544 messages illustre le fait que ce ne sont pas les individus anglo-saxons qui posent problème, mais peut-être le système politico-économiques des États-Unis (en particulier le complexe militaro-pétroléo-industriel états-unien).
Sander   Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:12 pm GMT
Greg,

Is it so bad then?"to change the subject ? I mean 546 messages on this subject and were still no further than where we started...I think it's a good idea to twist the topic.
greg   Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:48 pm GMT
Au contraire: on vient tout juste d'achever le préambule... Je crois que plus on discute et mieux c'est. Il est normal que les visions divergentes s'affrontent au départ. Mais rien n'interdit d'espérer que la suite soit aussi riche en émotions...
Uriel   Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:28 pm GMT
<<D'autre part je crois que la discussion de 37 pages et 544 messages illustre le fait que ce ne sont pas les individus anglo-saxons qui posent problème, mais peut-être le système politico-économiques des États-Unis (en particulier le complexe militaro-pétroléo-industriel états-unien). >>


Oh, that's right, I forgot: it's my whole COUNTRY that's to blame for all the ills of the world.
Candy   Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:40 am GMT
<<mais peut-être le système politico-économiques des États-Unis (en particulier le complexe militaro-pétroléo-industriel états-unien). >>

greg, please explain this enigmatic comment!? What does the US have to do with our discussion here??

<<Réduire la noble aspiration des Québécois à un sentiment de haine est un raisonnement à courte vue ou un manque de cœur ou, pire, de l'égocentrisme. >>

And reducing the whole of Anglophone Canada to a 'pale imitation' of US culture and crowing about the bitterness Anglophones supposedly have towards the 'superior' culture of Quebec is also 'egocentrism'. Don't you think? Or are you incapable of seeing any faults in what the 'vive le Quebec libre' people post here?
Riko   Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:41 pm GMT
In upstate NY and northern New England, especially Maine, French is a very important and historical language. The French were the first to settle these parts and left their names in places like Vermont and Acadia, Maine. If it were not for the French and their magnificent fort city in Quebec and settlements along the St. Lawrence their would not be a Canada as you know it for the English to come sailing through hundreds of years later. It is not useless in these parts like it is most likely in Vancouver where you live Steve K.

What is cultural arrogance? Why don't the 24 million Dutch that live in the Netherlands and Belgium preserve their language while learning the language of the 120 million German speakers to the east or the 70 million French speakers to their south? Why are they completely anglicizing their entire education/university system? Aren't the Dutch/Flemish being just as arrogant? Why can't a francophone be able to live in any part of Bruxelles and its environs without having to deal with the harassment of small minded Flemish nationalists?

Don't even get me started with Castilian in Spain and America.

Sebastian was giving very pertinent REAL examples of how the Quebecois have and continue to suffer in their own land and you dismiss us and people who think like us as 'primitive Latin nationalists'. What the fuck is your problem?
Sander   Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:56 pm GMT
Riko

=>What is cultural arrogance? Why don't the 24 million Dutch that live in the Netherlands and Belgium preserve their language while learning the language of the 120 million German speakers to the east or the 70 million French speakers to their south? Why are they completely anglicizing their entire education/university system? Aren't the Dutch/Flemish being just as arrogant? Why can't a francophone be able to live in any part of Bruxelles and its environs without having to deal with the harassment of small minded Flemish nationalists? <=

Who the fucking hell do you think you are?!

WE ARE NOT ANGLICIZING OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM and why the hell should we learn GERMAN or FRENCH?!WE HAVE NO BORDER WITH FRANCE OR FRENCH!THE FLEMISH HAVE BEEN MORE THAN TOLORANT WITH THEIR FRENCH TONGUED COUNTRYMEN THEY JUST ARE THE MOST STUPID AND ARROGANT PEOPLE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH!

YOU SHOULD READ A BIT ABOUT THE FRENCH OPRESSION OF DUTCH A 100 YEARS AGO IN BELGIUM BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR CRAP COMMENTS!
Candy   Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:12 pm GMT
<<Sebastian was giving very pertinent REAL examples of how the Quebecois have and continue to suffer in their own land>>

No, he wasn't. He was insulting Anglophone Canadians. Maybe it's time for the Quebeccois to stop wallowing in victimhood. It's not healthy.

<<Why are they completely anglicizing their entire education/university system?>>

Uhm, they aren't. Where do you get this rubbish?

<<Why don't the 24 million Dutch that live in the Netherlands and Belgium preserve their language>>

They do. That's why they're still Dutch speakers.
Riko   Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:22 pm GMT
http://www.fulbright.nl/content.aip?language=USA&destination=NL&id=812


Dutch Universities
FINDING OUT ABOUT ENGLISH-LANGUAGE STUDY AND RESEARCH PROGRAMS IN THE NETHERLANDS

The Netherlands offers more English-language courses and programs than any other European country (over 800!) covering all academic and professional fields. The best way to find the right program for you is by making direct contact with a Dutch colleague and university.

From Tammy Nyden-Bullock :
I found that having an affiliation with a university and a particular professor was essential for both my research and for practical arrangements. My best advice is start early—as soon as you begin thinking about going to the Netherlands. If you don't already know a professor or institution that matches your research interests, look through bibliographies of recent publications, talk to your professors, and pay special attention to the acknowledgements section of recent books published on your subject. Once you find a few names, contact them by letter or e-mail explaining your research interests and intention to go to The Netherlands. If they cannot help you, they may be able to suggest someone who can.

Nuffic, the Netherlands Organization for Cooperation in Higher Education, has a database to help you find the right academic program for you: www.studyin.nl. You can also refer to the complete list of Dutch universities below. Each of their websites has an English language and/or international student page.

Dutch Universities/Universiteiten (Research-based, Academic Programs)

1. Erasmus University Rotterdam (www.eur.nl)
"The principal tasks of Erasmus University Rotterdam are the generation and transfer of knowledge proceeding from a high degree of social engagement. To this end, the university pursues knowledge in an inquiring, critical, investigative and flexible manner, with a strong international orientation and based on the values of professionalism, teamwork and fair play." With over 16,000 students, EUR has faculties and schools in: Economics; Law, Social Sciences; Philosophy; History and Arts; Management and Business; Medicine; and Health Policy and Management.

2. University of Nijmegen/Radboud University Nijmegen (www.kun.nl)
The university will change its name to Radboud University Nijmegen on September 1, 2004. The new name confirms the connection between the University of Nijmegen and the University Medical Centre Nijmegen. The University is "one of the leading academic communities in the Netherlands. Renowned for its green campus, modern buildings, and state-of-the-art equipment, it has eight faculties and enrolls over 16.000 students in approximately 90 study programmes…"
Its departments include: Law; Management; Arts; Social Sciences; Science; Mathematics and Computing Science; Theology; Philosophy; and Medicine.

3. The Open University of the Netherlands (www.ou.nl)
The Open University is an institute for distance learning at the university level. "The Dutch government's purpose in founding Open Universiteit Nederland was to make higher education accessible to anyone with the necessary aptitudes and interests, regardless of formal qualifications."
Departments include: Management, Cultural Studies, Computer Sciences, Natural Sciences, Psychology, Law, and Education.

4. University of Groningen (Rijksuniversiteit Groningen. www.rug.nl )
RUG is located in the northeast Netherlands. It "has a long academic tradition encompassing virtually every scientific discipline." With over 20,000 students, its faculties include: Theology; History and Arts; Law; Philosophy; Mathematics and Natural Sciences; Management and Organization; Economic Sciences; Psychology; Social Sciences and Education; Spatial Sciences; and Medicine.

5. Technische Universiteit Eindhoven (www.tue.nl)
"The Technische Universiteit Eindhoven (TU/e) provides engineering, postgraduate design, and teacher-training programmes, and post-academic courses…The TU/e is an excellent partner for companies strongly oriented towards technology. The campus serves as a foundation for new enterprises." It has 6800 students and departments in: Architecture, Building and Planning; Electrical Engineering; Chemical Engineering and Chemistry; Applied Physics; Technology Management; Mechanical Engineering; Mathematics and Computer Science; Biomedical Engineering; and Industrial Design.

6. Universiteit van Amsterdam (www.uva.nl)
UvA has over 20,000 students and considers itself "…one of the leading research universities in Europe and the world, not only on the basis of its nature and history, but also its current qualities and ambitions." It has faculties in: Dentistry, Economics and Econometrics, Humanities, Law, Medicine, Science, and Social and Behavioral Sciences.

7. Leiden University (www.leidenuniv.nl)
"Remaining faithful to its historical mission, Leiden offers outstanding international students an intellectually exciting learning environment with high academic standards." With about 20,000 students altogether, the university offers over 40 graduate programs in English, including: Archaeology; Language and Literature; Arts and Design; Law; Astronomy; Mathematics; Biology & The Environment, Medicine and Bio-Pharmacy; Business, Management and Economics; Physics Chemistry; Politics and Diplomacy; Computers and IT; Psychology; Cultural Studies; Religion and Philosophy.

8. Universiteit Maastricht (www.unimaas.nl)
"UM is a general, internationally-oriented university, pursuing problem-based learning, outstanding research, and active interaction with the (EU) region." With 11,500 students, the university offers programs in: Arts and Culture; Economics and Business Administration; General Sciences; Health Sciences; Law; Medicine; Psychology; and Life Sciences.

9. Tilburg University (www.uvt.nl)
Tilburg University is "…a compact institution for higher education, specialised in human and social sciences and located in the southern part of the Netherlands." With almost 10,000 students, it has departments in: Economics and Business Administration; Social and Behavioral Sciences; Law, Arts; Philosophy; and the Tilburg Faculty of Theology.

10. University of Twente (www.utwente.nl)
"The University of Twente is an entrepreneurial research university and is the Netherlands' only campus university." With about 7,000 Masters and PhD students, it has faculties in: Behavioral Sciences; Business, Public Administration and Technology; Electrical Engineering, Mathematics and Computer Sciences; Engineering Technology; and Science and Technology.

11. Utrecht University (www.uu.nl)
UU is located in the heart of the Netherlands and "has developed into one of Europe's largest and most prominent institutes of research and education. With 47 Bachelor's programmes and 162 Master's programmes, Utrecht University offers the broadest spectrum of disciplines available in the Netherlands…" With almost 24,000 students, UU has faculties in: Humanities; Law, Economics and Government; Medicine; Veterinary Medicine; and Science Federation.

12. Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam (www.vu.nl)
"The Vrije Universiteit stands for high quality, fundamental, innovative and socially oriented research… In the area of social service, the Vrije Universiteit is a university that places teaching and research at the service of a society centred on sustainability." Faculties include: Arts; Dentistry; Economics and Business Administration; Human Movement Sciences; Earth and Life Sciences; Law; Medicine; Psychology and Education; Sciences; Social Sciences; Theology; and Philosophy.

13. Wageningen University and Research Center (www.wur.nl)
"Wageningen University wishes to develop and disseminate the scientific knowledge needed to sustainably supply society's demand for sufficient, healthy food and a good environment for humans, animals and plants."
Chair groups are in: Agrotechnology and Food Sciences; Animal Sciences; Social Sciences; Environmental Sciences; and Plant Sciences.

14. Delft University of Technology (www.tudelft.nl)
"Founded in 1842, Delft University of Technology is the oldest, largest, and most comprehensive technical university in the Netherlands. With over 13,000 students and 2,100 scientists (including 200 professors), it is an establishment of both national importance and significant international standing." With 13,000 students, TU Delft has faculties in Aerospace Engineering; Applied Sciences; Architecture; Civil Engineering and Geosciences; Design, Engineering and Production; Electrical Engineering, Mathematics and Computer Sciences; Technology, Policy and Management.

Dutch Universities/Hogescholen (Universities of Professional Education)
Hogescholen offer "practical training for specific careers", as opposed to the "fundamental pursuit of knowledge as scholars and scientists" at universiteiten. There are 50 hogescholen in the Netherlands, offering programs in economics and management; engineering and technology; health care, behavior and society; agriculture and the natural environment; fine and performing arts; and education. Lists of hogescholen can be found at www.hbo-raad.nl, and at www.nuffic.nl. For the latter, click on Links/Dutch Universities of Professional Education.

Note: Fulbright grants normally do not provide funds for attending hogescholen, except to fine and performing arts students.

Other Dutch Institutions of Higher Education
In addition to the two "pillars" of education represented by universiteiten and hogescholen, there are two more, smaller pillars. International education institutes, of which there are thirteen, provide post-graduate education to mid-career professionals from developing and transitional countries. (Seewww.fion.nl.)

Now and then, entities from other countries will establish a university in Holland that is intended to cater to the children of expatriots. Most of these foreign universities have failed. The exception is Webster University, an American university in Den Haag and Leiden. (See www.webster.nl.)



NSES vertegenwoordigt tevens de Nederlandse Anglistiek binnen , de European Society for the Study of English; de leden van NSES zijn dan ook automatisch lid van ESSE. ESSE organiseert om de twee jaar een groot congres: het meest recente ESSE-congres is in het jaar 2002 in Straatsburg gehouden; van 8-12 September 2004 is Zaragoza aan de beurt.

NSES stelt zich ten doel de uitwisseling van kennis en vaardigheden tussen in Nederland werkzame Anglisten in het land te stimuleren om zo een professionele samenwerking in een sfeer van vriendschappelijke collegialiteit te bevorderen. Verder zet NSES zich in voor de profilering van het internationaal erkende vakgebied Engelse Taal- en Letterkunde, onder meer door prijzen uit te loven: de NSES-Award wordt tweejaarlijks uitgereikt aan een journalist die zich buitengewoon verdienstelijk heeft gemaakt in ons vakgebied; de NSES-Afstudeerprijs wordt tweejaarlijks uitgereikt aan de degene die volgens een deskundige jury de beste scriptie c.q. het beste afstudeerproject van de afgelopen jaren heeft geschreven. Verder houdt het Dagelijks Bestuur van NSES contact met het Nationaal Congres Engels, een belangrijk forum voor docenten Engels in Nederland. NSES wil in de komende jaren een reeks van nieuwe activiteiten entameren met als doel de Nederlandse Anglistiek in binnen- en buitenland te profileren.


Als lid van NSES ontvangt u tweejaarlijks het blad van NSES, ESSENSES geheten, en ook het blad van ESSE, The European Messenger; zo blijft u op de hoogte van ontwikkelingen in de Anglistiek in landelijk en Europees verband. U kunt ook gratis deelnemen aan discussies op e-mail-lijst van NSES, Anglist. En u wordt uiteraard ook uitgenodigd voor de jaarlijkse algemene ledenvergadering die aansluitend op het academisch deel van het NSES-symposion wordt gehouden.

Iedereen die zich aangetrokken voelt tot de doelstellingen van NSES nodig ik van harte uit om lid te worden van de vereniging.
Sander   Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:23 pm GMT
LOL SO?!