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Lexical similarities between French-Spanish-Italian
Hye Marc, here are the unadulterated paragraphs from the original source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_Spanish_and_Portuguese
SPANISH:
Pero, a pesar de esta variedad de posibilidades que la voz posee, sería muy pobre instrumento de comunicación si no contara más que con ella. La capacidad de expresión del hombre no dispondría de más medios que la de los animales. La voz, sola, es para el hombre apenas una materia informe, que para convertirse en un instrumento perfecto de comunicación debe ser sometida a un cierto tratamiento. Esa manipulación que recibe la voz son las "articulaciones".
PORTUGUESE:
Porém, apesar desta variedade de possibilidades que a voz possui, seria um instrumento de comunicação muito pobre se não contasse com mais além dela. A capacidade de expressão do homem não disporia de mais meios que a dos animais. A voz, sozinha, é para o homem apenas uma matéria informe, que para se converter num instrumento perfeito de comunicação deve ser submetida a um certo tratamento. Essa manipulação que a voz recebe são as "articulações".
The phrases which were compared are the following, as they appear in the original paragraphs:
Spanish--
sería muy pobre instrumento de comunicación & más que con ella & dispondría de más medios
Portuguese--
seria um instrumento de comunicação muito pobre & com mais além dela & disporia de mais meios
Italian--
sarebbe lo strumento molto povero di communicazzione & più di con lei & avrebbe più mezzi
Sorry Marc...no, Italian is not closer than the Portuguese here to Spanish...any parvulo can clearly see this. Just look at each individual word and compare. The last two phrases in Italian, for example, are way off from the Spanish and Portuguese equivalents.
Including myself, another Spanish speaker has commented that he understood the Portuguese much easier. So did I. What more do you need to hear?
Soy Puerto Riquena y esa es mi opinion. Aqui en isla, el idioma Portugues es considerado muy bonito, muy facil de entender, y muy facil de aprender. Me parece que los italianos no aceptan eso. Porque? Nadie esta diciendo que el idioma italiano es feo, al contrario, es un idioma muy bonito. Pero, para mi, el Portugues suena mucho mas semejante al Espanol que el italiano, aunque Portugues tiene su acento distincto. Lo que pasa es que las palabras entre Espanol y Portugues son casi todas iguales, o a veces, la misma palabra en las dos lenguas tiene una letra mas, o una letra menos. Cuando escucho Portugues, parece que estoy oyendo un Espanol con un acento Frances. De todas las maneras, yo entiendo casi todo. Esto no es el caso con italiano. A veces hay palabras italianas que yo entiendo, pero lo que complica la cosa es que las palabras que son intelegibles no da para poner el contexto de lo que es dicho claro. La estructura, gramatica y vocabulario de Espanol y Italiano es diferente. El acento Espanol y Italiano es muy similar, si, pero no es el suficiente para facilitar un entendimiento perfecto. Muchas veces me quedo confusa cuando los turistas me hablan en italiano. Eso no sucede con los turistas de Portugal y Brasil. Ellos me hablan en su idioma, y yo hablo en el mio, y nos entendemos unos a los otros perfectamente bien.
Can anyone tell me what each accent means on all this Romace Langauge...? And what are they for...?
Hi Rolando,
` grave accent
´ acute accent
^ circumflex accent
In Spanish:
á, é, í, ó, ú
In all cases, the accent marks that this is the tonic vowel of the word. You have to pronounce it a bit louder than the rest of the vowels within the word.
In Portuguese:
í, ú
The same as in Spanish
á,é,ó
The same as in Spanish, BUT this vowels are pronounced wide open.
â, ê, ô
The same as above, but the vowels are pronounced quite closed, in some cases nasalized.
à
Indicates the contraction of preposition a (to) + feminine determined article a (the, which in the other romance languages would be "la").
In Italian:
à, è, ì, ò, ù
The same as in Spanish, BUT it is only written if the tonic vowel is at the end of the word.
é
The same as above, but the e is pronounced quite closed.
In French:
à
It marks the difference between two otherwise homonimes: la (feminine determined article) vs. là (there)
è
open e
é
closed e
ù
The same as with the a: ou (or) vs. où (where)
â, ê, î, ô, û
It marks sometimes an open pronountiation, sometimes it indicates that after this vowel an "s" followed in the past, in early stages of French.
See French hôpital vs. Spanish hospital, or maître vs. maestro.
In Catalan:
á, í, ú
The same as in Spanish, PLUS the fact that without it, "a" changes its sound to a neuter vowel.
é, ó
The same as in the case of "a" above, but with this accent, these vowels shall be pronounced closed.
è, ò
The same as above, but with this accent these vowels shall be pronounced open.
Romanian: in this language I don't know.
Advice to all spanish-speaking people.
GO WATCH =City of god= (brazilian movie)
you'll be amazed on how it's unintelligible. Seriously. Italian is by far, better understandable
Here's an example of the movie, (CITY OF GOD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQNJavuBZZs
oops!!! European Portugese is intelligible to spanish...
Ok... Since we talked about the Lexical Similarities about the Romance Languages... Can anyone post what is the phonological Similarities...?
to Sergio & Rolando:
In Romanian there are NO accents on letters. :)
all we have is:
- ă (pronounced like "ah/uh"-same sound you're making when you're thinking how to answer to some questions and u don't know the answer :P )
- î ( is NOT i. Don't know how to explain it... sorry. Maybe like trying to say "n" with closed mouth. Cannot be used inside of a word. Is only used as first letter in a word.)
- â (is not a. same pronounciation with abouve, but cannot be used as first letter in a word)
- ş (sh)
- ţ (some like "tz")
and we don't use PH. we use only F.
I tink that's all.
One more thing: spanish is very similar with portuguese. That's from a romanian point of view. I understand all of these romantic languages, but definetely spanish and portuguese are closed that the other. (in terms of spoken language, they way it's sound, not written)
some more:
from my (as romanian) point of view, french is the most NOT similar with italian, spanish, portuguese or romanian, from all of them. Romanian is more closed to italian. French and italian sounds so different. Spanish is more closed to italian than french. Portuguese sounds closed only to spanish: for me sounds like being a spanish dialect. Albanian: I never heard or saw written, so I have no idea if romanian is really closed to albanian.
All I can say: without studying any of those, I understand quite alot of them. I was talking with french, italian, spanish and portuguese people and: understand alot (more than 50%), but reply in english because I don't know/speak/studied any of those :(
thanks!
Are spanish & portguesse really arabised? Now, I'm very surprised...
Hi 2992. Very interesting and good comments.I agree with you. Most people who understand languages and linguistics agree that Portuguese sounds like a dialect of Spanish. And yes, the two are mutually understandable and are by far the closest Romance languages. Anyone in this forum who argue this are misguided, especially since there have been many Spanish speakers here who have confirmed that they understand Portuguese much more than French or Italian.
Another thing, I want to tell Marc that the movie "City of God" is not a good example, because the Portuguese spoken in this movie is BADLY SPOKEN PORTUGUESE - and I am an educated Portuguese speaker from Porto Alegre, Brazil. The Portuguese spoken in that movie is nothing but street talk, and even me as a Brazilian Portuguese speaker had a hard time to understand certain words. If you are going to use an example of Brazilian Portuguese, at least use something which reflects how most of average speakers in Brazil speak. I don't understand...some people here said that Brazilian Portuguese is more understandable to Spanish speakers, and now I'm reading that European Portuguese is more understandable to Spanish. You guys don't know what you want to believe it seems.
Anyway, there is nothing wrong with the European Portuguese samples Rolando provided, except that the 1st sample is funny, although I felt sorry for the lady reporter who was subjected to that verbal insult. I as a Brazilian can go anywhere in Portugal and understand them perfectly - I know because I went there before and had no problems at all. And I always understand the Portuguese who come here to my city of Porto Alegre, Brazil. And I been to many spanish speaking countries in South America and Spain and my Portuguese is well understood. Italian is a nice language for sure, but it is not as close to Spanish as some of you claim. Anyway, there is no need to continue argue about this because anyone who knows about latin languages knows that Spanish and Portuguese are very close, and closer than any of the others and always will be.
People like to make up stories about things without knowing what they are talking about.
I from Sevilla Espana. I listen to the samples and I understand most of what was say en Portugues.
European-portuguese sounds slavic like. Brazilian-portuguese sounds like a lazy french learning spanish.
Who cares what Portuguese sounds like? Someone in this forum is consistently trying to undermine the beauty, richness, vitality and worldwide usage of the Portuguese language. A language like this can never, ever, be undermined. Whoever you are, give it up. Your condescensions and erroneous claims are ridiculous and child-like.
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