Let's not forget, the now common FONIX
Or ta demais
Or ta demais
Galician and Portuguese
It is very rare for me to hear fonix (and I never, ever used it). But I hear many times fosga-se.
http://www.lucianopires.com.br/iscasbrasil/iscas/abre_isca.asp?cod=847
A nice article on thou.
Cadê tu? Where is thou?
It's on tu being obsolete in Brazil.
A nice article on thou.
Cadê tu? Where is thou?
It's on tu being obsolete in Brazil.
more from this article:
''O Português do Brasil não é o mesmo de Portugal, e temos que encarar essas diferenças doa a quem doer. Não temos o mesmo número de habitantes, o mesmo tamanho territorial, os mesmos acontecimentos, e, portanto, seguimos um falar diferente. A língua é a identidade de um povo, de suas transformações, comunidades, sociedades.''
baita verdade
real truth
''O Português do Brasil não é o mesmo de Portugal, e temos que encarar essas diferenças doa a quem doer. Não temos o mesmo número de habitantes, o mesmo tamanho territorial, os mesmos acontecimentos, e, portanto, seguimos um falar diferente. A língua é a identidade de um povo, de suas transformações, comunidades, sociedades.''
baita verdade
real truth
''O Português da Paraíba não é o mesmo do Rio Grande do Sul, e temos que encarar essas diferenças doa a quem doer. Não temos o mesmo número de habitantes, o mesmo tamanho territorial, os mesmos acontecimentos, e, portanto, seguimos um falar diferente. A língua é a identidade do povo de uma região, de suas transformações, comunidades, sociedades.''
Outra verdade.
Outra verdade.
Brazilian Portuguese
The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see discussion on the talk page.
According to many Brazilian linguists (Bortoni, Kato, Mattos e Silva, Bagno, Perini and more recently, with great impact, Marcos Bagno), Brazilian Portuguese is a highly diglossic language. L-variant (hereafter termed "Brazilian Vernacular") is the mother tongue of all Brazilians, and H-variant (standard Brazilian Portuguese) is acquired through schooling. L-variant is a simplified language (in terms of grammar, but not of phonetics) that has evolved from XVI-Century Portuguese, influenced by Amerindian (mostly Tupi) and African languages, while H-variant is based on 19th century European Portuguese (and it is still very similar to Standard European Portuguese, with only minor differences in spelling and grammar usage). Mário A. Perini, a Brazilian linguist, compares the depth of the differences between L- and H- variants of Brazilian Portuguese with those between Standard Spanish and Standard Portuguese.
Usage
The L-variant is the spoken form of Brazilian Portuguese, which should be avoided only in very formal speech (court interrogation, political debate) while the H-variant is the written form of Brazilian Portuguese, avoided only in informal writing (such as songs lyrics, love letters, intimate friends correspondence). Even language professors many times use the L-variant while explaining students the structure and usage of the H-variant; in essays, nevertheless, all students are expected to use H-variant.
While the L-variant is used in songs, movies, soap operas, sitcoms and other television shows, although, at times, the H-variant is used in historic films or soap operas to make the language used sound more ‘elegant’ and/or ‘archaic’. The H-variant used to be preferred when dubbing foreign films and series into Brazilian Portuguese, but nowadays the L-variant is preferred. Movie subtitles normally use a mixture of L- and H-variants, but remain closer to the H-variant.
Most literary works are written in the H-variant. They have been attempts at writing in the L-variant (masterpiece Macunaíma, written by Brazilian modernist Mário de Andrade and Grande Sertão: Veredas, by João Guimarães Rosa), but, presently, the L-variant is used only in dialogue. Still, many contemporary writers like using the H-variant even in informal dialogue. This is also true of translated books, which never use the L-variant, only the H one. Childrens books seem to be more L-friendly, but, again, if they are translated from another language (The Little Prince, for instance) they will use the H-variant only.
Prestige
The matter of diglossia in Brazil is complicated by political and cultural bias. Language has been made, apparently, into a tool of social exclusion (or social choice).
Mário A. Perini, a famous Brazilian linguist, has said:
"There are two languages in Brazil. The one we write (and which is called "Portuguese"), and another one that we speak (which is so despised that there is not a name to call it). The latter is the mother tongue of Brazilians, the former has to be learned in school, and a majority of population does not manage to master it appropriately.... Personally, I do not object to us writing Portuguese, but I think it is important to make clear that Portuguese is (at least in Brazil) only a written language. Our mother tongue is not Portuguese, but Brazilian Vernacular. This is not a slogan, nor a political statement, it is simply recognition of a fact.... There are linguistic teams working hard in order to give the full description of the structure of the Vernacular. So, there are hopes, that within some years, we will have appropriate grammars of our mother tongue, the language that has been ignored, denied and despised for such a long time."
According to Milton M. Azevedo (Brazilian linguist):
"The relationship between Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese and the formal prescriptive variety fulfills the basic conditions of Ferguson's definition [of diglossia]...[...] Considering the difficulty encountered by vernacular speakers to acquire the standard, an understanding of those relationships appears to have broad educational significance. The teaching of Portuguese has traditionally meant imparting a prescriptive formal standard based on a literary register (Cunha 1985: 24) that is often at variance with the language with which students are familiar. As in a diglossic situation, vernacular speakers must learn to read and write in a dialect they neither speak nor fully understand, a circumstance that may have a bearing on the high dropout rate in elementary schools..."
According to Bagno (1999) the two variants coexist and intermingle quite seamlessly, but their status is not clear-cut. Brazilian Vernacular is still frowned by most grammarians and language teachers, with only a few linguists championing its cause. Detrators of the Brazilian Vernacular call it a "corrupt" form of the "pure" standard, usually because it is more permeable to foreign influence (nowadays mostly English) and because it simplifies some of the intricacies of standard Portuguese (verbal conjugation, pronoun handling, plural forms, etc.).
Bagno sums the prejudice against the vernacular in what he terms the "8 Myths":
There is a striking uniformity in Brazilian Portuguese
Nearly all Brazilians speak very poor Portuguese while in Portugal people speak it very well
Portuguese is extremely difficult
People that have had poor education can't speak anything correctly
In the state of Maranhão people speak a better Portuguese than elsewhere in Brazil
We should speak as closely as possible to the written language
The knowledge of Grammar is essential to the correct and proper use of a language
To master Standard Portuguese is path to social promotion
In opposition to the "myths", Bagno counters that:
The uniformity of Brazilian Portuguese is just about linguistics predicts for such a large country whose population has not been well literate for centuries and has undergone several waves of foreign influence: more apparent than real.
Brazilians speak Standard Portuguese poorly because they are used to a very different language usage, to the point that SP sounds almost "foreign" to them. In terms of comparison, it is easier for many Brazilians to understand someone from a Spanish-speaking South American country than someone from Portugal because spoken language has diverged to the fringe of estrangement on both sides of the Atlantic.
No language is difficult for those who speak it. Difficult appears as the standard language diverges from the vernacular and this is the precise reason why spelling and grammar reforms happen every now and then.
People of poor education can only speak vernacular, and they speak it well.
The people of Maranhão are not generally better than fellow Brazilians from other states in speaking SP, especially because that state is one of the poorest and has one of the lowest literacy rates.
It is the written language that must reflect the spoken as it is not the tail that waves the dog.
The knowledge of Grammar is intuitive for those who speak their native languages. You only need to study the Grammar of a foreign language.
Rich and influential people often show no respect for the norm. SP is mostly a jewel for powerless middle-class careers (journalists, teachers, writers, actors, etc.).
Whether Bagno's points are valid or not is still open to debate (especially the solutions he commends for the problems he identifies) but one must agree that he has captured the mood of the Brazilians about their own linguistic situation very well. His book (Linguistic Prejudice: What it Is, How To Do) is a must-read, even if you merely want to bash it.
Other Linguistic Considerations
Many linguists use the term "Brazilian Portuguese" to describe the mesolect of Brazilian Vernacular, not the Standard Brazilian Portuguese which is almost identical to Standard European Portuguese. That language is characterized by simplification in verbal and pronominal systems and many changes in prepositional system, but the most striking differences are those affecting syntax. Brazilian linguist Fernando Tarallo claims that "the Portuguese language variety used in Brazil has developed quite a reasonable number of syntactic features different from the European system. These differences are large enough to allow for a description of the Brazilian variety in the sense of a Brazilian grammar". The same was confirmed later by Brazilian-based French linguist Galves.
The mesolect form of Brazilian Vernacular (that is, the one used in the speech of middle class Brazilians) is the form of Brazilian Portuguese language taught at American universities. H-varieties are explained later after students have mastered the L-variants.
The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see discussion on the talk page.
According to many Brazilian linguists (Bortoni, Kato, Mattos e Silva, Bagno, Perini and more recently, with great impact, Marcos Bagno), Brazilian Portuguese is a highly diglossic language. L-variant (hereafter termed "Brazilian Vernacular") is the mother tongue of all Brazilians, and H-variant (standard Brazilian Portuguese) is acquired through schooling. L-variant is a simplified language (in terms of grammar, but not of phonetics) that has evolved from XVI-Century Portuguese, influenced by Amerindian (mostly Tupi) and African languages, while H-variant is based on 19th century European Portuguese (and it is still very similar to Standard European Portuguese, with only minor differences in spelling and grammar usage). Mário A. Perini, a Brazilian linguist, compares the depth of the differences between L- and H- variants of Brazilian Portuguese with those between Standard Spanish and Standard Portuguese.
Usage
The L-variant is the spoken form of Brazilian Portuguese, which should be avoided only in very formal speech (court interrogation, political debate) while the H-variant is the written form of Brazilian Portuguese, avoided only in informal writing (such as songs lyrics, love letters, intimate friends correspondence). Even language professors many times use the L-variant while explaining students the structure and usage of the H-variant; in essays, nevertheless, all students are expected to use H-variant.
While the L-variant is used in songs, movies, soap operas, sitcoms and other television shows, although, at times, the H-variant is used in historic films or soap operas to make the language used sound more ‘elegant’ and/or ‘archaic’. The H-variant used to be preferred when dubbing foreign films and series into Brazilian Portuguese, but nowadays the L-variant is preferred. Movie subtitles normally use a mixture of L- and H-variants, but remain closer to the H-variant.
Most literary works are written in the H-variant. They have been attempts at writing in the L-variant (masterpiece Macunaíma, written by Brazilian modernist Mário de Andrade and Grande Sertão: Veredas, by João Guimarães Rosa), but, presently, the L-variant is used only in dialogue. Still, many contemporary writers like using the H-variant even in informal dialogue. This is also true of translated books, which never use the L-variant, only the H one. Childrens books seem to be more L-friendly, but, again, if they are translated from another language (The Little Prince, for instance) they will use the H-variant only.
Prestige
The matter of diglossia in Brazil is complicated by political and cultural bias. Language has been made, apparently, into a tool of social exclusion (or social choice).
Mário A. Perini, a famous Brazilian linguist, has said:
"There are two languages in Brazil. The one we write (and which is called "Portuguese"), and another one that we speak (which is so despised that there is not a name to call it). The latter is the mother tongue of Brazilians, the former has to be learned in school, and a majority of population does not manage to master it appropriately.... Personally, I do not object to us writing Portuguese, but I think it is important to make clear that Portuguese is (at least in Brazil) only a written language. Our mother tongue is not Portuguese, but Brazilian Vernacular. This is not a slogan, nor a political statement, it is simply recognition of a fact.... There are linguistic teams working hard in order to give the full description of the structure of the Vernacular. So, there are hopes, that within some years, we will have appropriate grammars of our mother tongue, the language that has been ignored, denied and despised for such a long time."
According to Milton M. Azevedo (Brazilian linguist):
"The relationship between Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese and the formal prescriptive variety fulfills the basic conditions of Ferguson's definition [of diglossia]...[...] Considering the difficulty encountered by vernacular speakers to acquire the standard, an understanding of those relationships appears to have broad educational significance. The teaching of Portuguese has traditionally meant imparting a prescriptive formal standard based on a literary register (Cunha 1985: 24) that is often at variance with the language with which students are familiar. As in a diglossic situation, vernacular speakers must learn to read and write in a dialect they neither speak nor fully understand, a circumstance that may have a bearing on the high dropout rate in elementary schools..."
According to Bagno (1999) the two variants coexist and intermingle quite seamlessly, but their status is not clear-cut. Brazilian Vernacular is still frowned by most grammarians and language teachers, with only a few linguists championing its cause. Detrators of the Brazilian Vernacular call it a "corrupt" form of the "pure" standard, usually because it is more permeable to foreign influence (nowadays mostly English) and because it simplifies some of the intricacies of standard Portuguese (verbal conjugation, pronoun handling, plural forms, etc.).
Bagno sums the prejudice against the vernacular in what he terms the "8 Myths":
There is a striking uniformity in Brazilian Portuguese
Nearly all Brazilians speak very poor Portuguese while in Portugal people speak it very well
Portuguese is extremely difficult
People that have had poor education can't speak anything correctly
In the state of Maranhão people speak a better Portuguese than elsewhere in Brazil
We should speak as closely as possible to the written language
The knowledge of Grammar is essential to the correct and proper use of a language
To master Standard Portuguese is path to social promotion
In opposition to the "myths", Bagno counters that:
The uniformity of Brazilian Portuguese is just about linguistics predicts for such a large country whose population has not been well literate for centuries and has undergone several waves of foreign influence: more apparent than real.
Brazilians speak Standard Portuguese poorly because they are used to a very different language usage, to the point that SP sounds almost "foreign" to them. In terms of comparison, it is easier for many Brazilians to understand someone from a Spanish-speaking South American country than someone from Portugal because spoken language has diverged to the fringe of estrangement on both sides of the Atlantic.
No language is difficult for those who speak it. Difficult appears as the standard language diverges from the vernacular and this is the precise reason why spelling and grammar reforms happen every now and then.
People of poor education can only speak vernacular, and they speak it well.
The people of Maranhão are not generally better than fellow Brazilians from other states in speaking SP, especially because that state is one of the poorest and has one of the lowest literacy rates.
It is the written language that must reflect the spoken as it is not the tail that waves the dog.
The knowledge of Grammar is intuitive for those who speak their native languages. You only need to study the Grammar of a foreign language.
Rich and influential people often show no respect for the norm. SP is mostly a jewel for powerless middle-class careers (journalists, teachers, writers, actors, etc.).
Whether Bagno's points are valid or not is still open to debate (especially the solutions he commends for the problems he identifies) but one must agree that he has captured the mood of the Brazilians about their own linguistic situation very well. His book (Linguistic Prejudice: What it Is, How To Do) is a must-read, even if you merely want to bash it.
Other Linguistic Considerations
Many linguists use the term "Brazilian Portuguese" to describe the mesolect of Brazilian Vernacular, not the Standard Brazilian Portuguese which is almost identical to Standard European Portuguese. That language is characterized by simplification in verbal and pronominal systems and many changes in prepositional system, but the most striking differences are those affecting syntax. Brazilian linguist Fernando Tarallo claims that "the Portuguese language variety used in Brazil has developed quite a reasonable number of syntactic features different from the European system. These differences are large enough to allow for a description of the Brazilian variety in the sense of a Brazilian grammar". The same was confirmed later by Brazilian-based French linguist Galves.
The mesolect form of Brazilian Vernacular (that is, the one used in the speech of middle class Brazilians) is the form of Brazilian Portuguese language taught at American universities. H-varieties are explained later after students have mastered the L-variants.
Bibliography on Diglossia:
Azevedo, Milton. 2005. "Portuguese. A linguistic introduction". Cambridge University Press.
Azevedo, Milton; University of California. "Vernacular Features in Educated Speech in Brazilian Portuguese" http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/servlet/SirveObras/79117399329793384100080/p0000008.htm
Bagno, Marcos. "Português ou Brasileiro? (Portuguese or Brazilian?)" http://paginas.terra.com.br/educacao/marcosbagno/
Eeden, Petrus van. "Diglossie" http://www.afrikaans.nu/pag7.htm
Freeman, Andrew. "Andrew Freeman's Perspectives on Arabic Diglossia" http://www-personal.umich.edu/~andyf/digl_96.htm
Lubliner, Jacob. "Reflections on Diglossia" http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~coby/essays/refdigl.htm
Módolo, Marcelo. "As duas línguas do Brasil.(Two languages of Brazil)" Editora FAUUSP.
Perini, Mário. 2002. "Modern Portuguese. A Reference Grammar." Yale University Press. New Haven.
Rash, Felicity. 1998. The German Language in Switzerland. Multilingualism, Diglossia and Variation. Bern: Peter Lang.
Schiffman, Harold. "Diglossia as a Sociolinguistic Situation" http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/messeas/diglossia/node1.html
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diglossia"
Categories: Articles which may be biased | NPOV disputes | Sociolinguistics
Azevedo, Milton. 2005. "Portuguese. A linguistic introduction". Cambridge University Press.
Azevedo, Milton; University of California. "Vernacular Features in Educated Speech in Brazilian Portuguese" http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/servlet/SirveObras/79117399329793384100080/p0000008.htm
Bagno, Marcos. "Português ou Brasileiro? (Portuguese or Brazilian?)" http://paginas.terra.com.br/educacao/marcosbagno/
Eeden, Petrus van. "Diglossie" http://www.afrikaans.nu/pag7.htm
Freeman, Andrew. "Andrew Freeman's Perspectives on Arabic Diglossia" http://www-personal.umich.edu/~andyf/digl_96.htm
Lubliner, Jacob. "Reflections on Diglossia" http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~coby/essays/refdigl.htm
Módolo, Marcelo. "As duas línguas do Brasil.(Two languages of Brazil)" Editora FAUUSP.
Perini, Mário. 2002. "Modern Portuguese. A Reference Grammar." Yale University Press. New Haven.
Rash, Felicity. 1998. The German Language in Switzerland. Multilingualism, Diglossia and Variation. Bern: Peter Lang.
Schiffman, Harold. "Diglossia as a Sociolinguistic Situation" http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/messeas/diglossia/node1.html
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diglossia"
Categories: Articles which may be biased | NPOV disputes | Sociolinguistics
''O Português da Baixa é o mêjmu d Torr d' B'lãe e temx d inkarare essax difrençak dôê ê kãe duere. Neum temuz u mêjm númru d abitantx, u mejm têmênhu t'rrrituriale, uj mejmx êkuntensimentx, i, purtant, s'gimuz um fêlár difrent. Ê línguê é ê identithath du pov dumê rrrrgieun, dêx xuêx trenxfurêçõix, kumunithathx, suciethathx''
''U purtguêx dê Báixê neum é u mêjmu d Torr d' B'lãe e temx d inkarare essax difrençak dôê ê kãe duere. Neum temuz u mêjm númru d abitantx, u mejm têmênhu t'rrrituriale, uj mejmx êkuntensimentx, i, purtant, s'gimuz um fêlár difrent. Ê línguê é ê identithath du pov dumê rrrrgieun, dêx xuêx trenxfurêçõix, kumunithathx, suciethathx''
th like th in that
th like th in that
''U purtguêx dê Báixê neum é u mêjmu d Torr d' B'lãe e temx d inkarare essax difrênçex dôê ê kãe duere. Neum temuz u mêjm númru d abitantx, u mejm têmênhu t'rrrituriale, uj mejmx êkuntensimentx, i, purtant, s'gimuz um fêlár difrent. Ê línguê é ê identithath du pov dumê rrrrgieun, dêx xuêx trenxfurêçõix, kumunithathx, suciethathx''
th like th in that
th like th in that
I would like to know if Portuguese people like our music/lyrics such as: BEIJA EU (from Marisa Monte [Tribalistas' singer]):
Seja eu,
Seja eu,
Deixa que eu seja eu.
E aceita
O que seja seu.
Então deita e aceita eu.
Molha eu,
Seca eu,
Deixa que eu seja o céu.
E receba
O que seja seu.
Anoiteça e amanheça eu.
Beija eu,
Beija eu,
Beija eu, me beija.
Deixa
O que seja ser.
Então beba e receba
Meu corpo no seu corpo,
Eu no meu corpo,
Deixa,
Eu me deixo.
Anoiteça e amanheça.
Seja eu,
Seja eu,
Deixa que eu seja eu.
E aceita
O que seja seu.
Então deita e aceita eu.
Molha eu,
Seca eu,
Deixa que eu seja o céu.
E receba
O que seja seu.
Anoiteça e amanheça eu.
Beija eu,
Beija eu,
Beija eu, me beija.
Deixa
O que seja ser.
Então beba e receba
Meu corpo no seu corpo,
Eu no meu corpo,
Deixa,
Eu me deixo.
Anoiteça e amanheça.
A gente gosta porque conhecemos. Infelizmente o mesmo não se pode dizer dos brasileiros conhecerem música portuguese ou de outros países onde fala português. Se calhar é natural isso acontecer.
Puro mecanismo de compensação, psicologicamente falando...
Se aquele que eu odeio me elogia, fico num beco sem saída, sem espaço para negativizar. Então tenho de tentar a fuga para a frente, tentar rebaixar ainda mais. É duro ser gostado pelos nossos "inimigos", que truque mais baixo, hein?!...
Não há terapia que aguente!!...
Se aquele que eu odeio me elogia, fico num beco sem saída, sem espaço para negativizar. Então tenho de tentar a fuga para a frente, tentar rebaixar ainda mais. É duro ser gostado pelos nossos "inimigos", que truque mais baixo, hein?!...
Não há terapia que aguente!!...