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French vs German vs Spanish? Difficulty & Usefulness?
By the way, are you still not happy after attacking me on this thread by hurling nasty and filthy words on me that you are turning on Libelle Reiher? It looks like you feel blue when you don't quarrel with anybody.
Tu veux continuer à avoir une querelle avec moi? Dit moi! Je souhaite pas placoter avec quelqu'un qui est dingue.
Mon cher Gallophile: what vulgar, vulgar French! Such a nice language and in such bad hands. You are the best proof of the decadence of International French.
Libel Reich. We all love you. Honestly. Best thing for a Sunday morning. You do more for our cause, with your superior intelligence, than we'll ever reach. We do our best but with people like we needn't try. Speaking of "white", does being 100% European, Spanish, very pale and easily burnt skin, light blonde hair and green eyes make me white, light, green or blue? Funny how these New World heirs from Northern European Barbarians forebears tend to think.
Gallophile:
<<Je souhaite pas placoter avec quelqu'un qui est dingue.>> Exactement. I have seen some people who defend the Spanish language in other threads on this forum who act with dignity and class, Gallophile. You should just ignore these people here. The moment someone starts acting like a chauvinistic pig and resorts to that I realizerth talking to. You are right; when they attack others and call them filthy names (look what that says for their culture!) -- they seal their fate regarding the image others may have of them. As in your case, they started hurling the insults first and then try to blame everything on others. Pathetic. And NOT ONE of them can answer any of our questions and all they do is act hysterical as if bitten by a rabid raccoon. Did you see this "from Spain" asked me if I have a picture of myself "by the pool"? Quel cretin de merde! Frankly, when I was in Italy the men there were very disrepectful and vulgar to women. The men from the Germanic countries, which he loves to call the barbarian nations (when in reality the Germanic countries have given more to the world than ANYONE -- no one can argue that) treat women with respect. I have lived in England and Germany and I never encountered the kinds of problems I did in Italy. There was an old man who was literally grabbing my butt on a bus in Rome to the point where I was almost in tears. I had a dress on and he was putting his hands underneath my dress directly on my underwear. It was a very crowded bus and we all had to stand. I was mortified -- nothing is impossible, but this very likely would not have happened so easily in a Germanic country -- people on the bus would have said something or done something. In America someone like that would be arrested. In any case, Gallophile, From Spain keeps making fun of your French when he is not even a native speaker. Seems to me he has an incredibly low self seteem and loves to act like a big Hispanic bully. Quel enculé de merde. There are some people like Pete (Pedro from Peru) who are polite and respectful who state their opinions assertively nonetheless. I've seen a couple of others who are not the fanatics like this one here. Just ignore these spazzes -- they WANT you to react. Bonne journée, Libelle P.S. Notice that "from Spain" wants a medal because he's white! Quel connard! ha ha ha That still doesn't help his cause!
You definetely are a "libel" and not "libelle". You choose your names very well and have too much of the "bad" Germanic influence when there is also a lot of good in it. Of course, the Germanic people have also given a lot of good to the rest of the world. ¡Faltaría más!
I suppose you know the difference. You even put words in mouths that haven't pronounced them. I know enough English and French to tell native from non-native and good from bad French. Like writing "dit moi" for "dis moi" or using informal street French in formal contexts. Where did I ask you if you had a picture of yourself by the pool? I'm still wondering. Why would I want that for? You say: "when in reality the Germanic countries have given more to the world than ANYONE -- no one can argue that." Why can't we argue that? That, precisely, is the most arguable part of your mean and simple theories. We've all given a lot to the world, you spoilt pseudo-northern European brat, including all the people in the other continents, and not only a bunch of Europeans. You're really the lower sort who cannot tell irony from the rest. A medal for being white? I told you I get sunburnt every year and you call that asking for a medal? Whites do not exist in Europe. They only exist in Northern American imagination for some odd reason (and is some Germanic philosophies). We're Europeans, as simple as that; from milky white to dark brown and some are black. Colours are so beautiful I just can't understand some of your reasonings. I any case you, I and Gallophile belong to the very same type and I decided to dress up as one of your sick tribe. No way the message could get through. This is what my irony is all about. Nice Spanish-speaking people would be those who know you are superior or who are much more polite than you will ever be. I won't bother making a list of Southern Europe contribution to Europe, not to say the rest of the world. That would be too ridiculous. By the way, Gallophile, your dear Germanic Libel seems to also think the French Latin are inferior to Germanics, but slightly better than the rest, specially if it suits her interests. She's a strange sort of an allie but you know them, you will always be second class even if there is a third and fourth class behind you and when she finishes with us, she'll go for you. These people always need slaves to serve them. I, of course, congratulate Pedro from Peru who seems to be an educated human being, far, far from what you will ever be. Moi un connard? Et toi une conasse! Moi un enculé? Va te faire foutre par devant et par derrière ma petite chienne! I trust you'll enjoy that.
I made a mistake -- It was TITO who said:
<<by the way don't you have a good picture of yourself by the pool or something?>> I would be happy to apologize to "From Spain" if he would stop being such a bully. He calls me racist and he STILL (QUEL SURPRISE, ON PEUT DIRE!) refuses to list the great achievements, accomplishments, and contributions of the Spanish-speaking world! He is full of excuses and envy for the other European countries. He is acting like the red-headed stepchild, as we say. En plus, he thinks he is Freud or something with his FAULTY pseudo-psychoanalysis! And FOR HIS INFORMATION, I have AT LEAST as much French heritage as German! And Celtic, for that matter! So he has NO idea what he is talking about. And, for his information, I have a son with a Spanish-American! So his theories go right down the drain. Gallophile, as usual, just ignore these people. I can trace my heritage to France in the 1600s. My great-great-great-great-great grandfather was the first white settler (yes, I think French people are white -- quel cretin! encroyable!) north of the river I live near and has places in the county named after him, etc. He married a French aristocrat who escaped the French revolution and fled here with her brother, who was a Catholic priest. I have access to her actual passport from the 1700s in which she stated that she could not read so that she wouldn't be killed. I am very proud of my French heritage and do not consider it inferior to German. Besides, many French people get annoyed if you try to say they are a "latin country" -- they are oftentimes quick to correct you and to remind you of their Frankish heritage. I found this surprising, but I think many people do tend to forget the Germanic influence in France (and also, let's not forget the Viking/Normans of Normandy, where all of my French ancestors came). France is an anomaly. It is too difficult to classify it as either "Germanic" or "Latin" -- it is the crossroads of Europe. No matter what, though, the French have MUCH to be proud of and have contributed enormously to European culture and society as a whole. No matter what these fanatic Hispanics say, they can never take away the dignity of these people.
<<I won't bother making a list of Southern Europe contribution to Europe, not to say the rest of the world. That would be too ridiculous.>>
Indeed.
<<And, for his information, I have a son with a Spanish-American! So his theories go right down the drain. >>
Poor boy! a potential neo nazi!
Well, well, Spanish is an important economic language:
Gross Domestic Product: Spain 1,2 Mexico 0,8 Latinos of USA (10% of USA) 1,3 Other Latin American countries 1 So, the power of ALL SPANISH SPEAKING POPULATION is more or less 4,3 Germany 3,2 France 2 Russia 0,7 So, Spanish is more important economically than other languages. Other important point. Spanish is the FIRST LANGUAGE, THE MOTHER TONGUE OF: 360 MILLION PEOPLE. IT IS THE SECOND LANGUAGE OF 100 MILLION MORE. IT IS UNDERSTOOD BY OTHER 200 MILLION PEOPLE (BRAZIL, PORTUGAL OR ITALY). SO, 660 MILLION PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND THIS LANGUAGE. Other important point: There is only ONE IMPORTANT LANGUAGE: ENGLISH So, the second or third most important language should be spoken in a big area where English is not spoken. Well, there is only 4 big areas where there is a language spoken by millions of people as mother tongue: 1. CHINESE 2. SPANISH 3. ARABIC 4. RUSSIAN So, German and French are not in this list. David Graddol, a British expert, says that the languages of the future are 4: 1. ENGLISH 2. SPANISH 3. CHINESE 4. ARABIC Sorry, but French and German are not in this list. Other important point: It is very important how many people speak the language as mother tongue and as second language. For example, in Senegal French is spoken as second language. It is studied at school, but nobody speak this language as mother tongue. So, perhaps in the near future, they can change and study Arabic or English. This is the situation of French speaking countries in Africa. French is a weak language. It is the mother tongue of only 90 million people. If Senegal, Congo or Togo start to study English, French will be less important than Polish. German is perhaps spoken by 100 million people as mother tongue, but it has a big problem: English. German was the lingua franca of Central Europe and Scandinavian countries. At this moment is English the lingua franca. So, German is an interesting language but not important. Finally, Spanish is not important BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY AN IMPORTANT LANGUAGE (ENGLISH), but at least is the most spoken language in AN IMPORTANT CONTINENT: AMERICA. CHINESE IN ASIA, ENGLISH IN EUROPE, NORTH AMERICA AND OCEANIA, SPANISH IN CENTRAL AMERICA AND SOUTH AMERICA, AND ARABIC IN AFRICA AND MIDDLE EAST ARE THE LANGUAGES OF THE FUTURE AND THE MOST SPOKEN
Sam,
I understand your points -- it seems that it all depends if you think the number of speakers is what is most important or if you don't when choosing which language(s) to study. One of the Hispanophiles on this board told a poster that he did not consider number of speakers to be important and therefore he would not be learning Chinese. Well it seems that some people want it both ways. The same kinds of people who post things like that go on to say how many people speak Spanish, and cite that as a good reason for learning Spanish. I think you make an excellent point that it is very important where the languages are spoken. Yes, Spain is part of Europe, but Spanish is not widely used outside of Spain on that continent. Yes, the U.S. is important, so you could argue that because the Hispanics are booming in population in the United States that it could be considered important there. Have you seen how many times people call me a "racist" and now are saying that my son, whose father is Spanish-American may grow up to be a "Neo-Nazi"? I challenge anyone in this forum to tell me one thing "racist" or "Neo-Nazi" I have said about either Spanish-speakers or Spaniards. If you go back to my original postings you will see that this is not true. In both cases, in this thread, Hispanophiles have instigated the attacks on Gallophile, another person who supported French from Louisiana, and me just because we had a minority opinion. When people disagreed with their opinions, they started accusing them of all kinds of things and calling them "hoe, idiot, cunt," etc., saying the Germans were really great at gassing people, etc. And this is all because they cannot accept the FACTS that, no matter how much they may wish otherwise, it is TRUE that Spanish in the United States is being recommended for occupations/careers mostly in the fields of health care, corrections, and social work. These people should not be upset with ME because many Hispanics in the U.S. are poor (almost all of them come from Mexico, 80% -- another FACT -- not European Spain). Because so many of the Hispanics in the U.S come from these impoverished Latin American countries, they need many services such as health care, social services, etc. This does not mean that just because they are poor that everyone thinks they are bad people. We have plenty of poor people of every race in this country, as anyone with an ounce of intelligence would know. However, it is also a FACT that German is recommended by more university departments than any other language in the United States. Why do you think that might be? You have to admit that this seems a little odd for the language that is only in third place in high schools and even universities. Obviously the students in the U.S. are not always listening to these professors either, or there would be more students studying German. Am I the one who forces professors to say that? These posters in this forum don't like that FACT, so they choose to gang up on me (but frankly, I know I am not the kind of person they paint me to be, and that is what matters to me). I also know that many people don't like the sound of German -- do I go cry and whine about it? No, I don't. I don't consider it to be beautiful and it is especially not pretty. I think it sounds cool or maybe interesting, even kind of charming, but not conventionally "pretty" like French. Do I care if someone else thinks it's an ugly-sounding language? No, I don't. So why should someone care if I think Spanish is not pleasing to MY ears? Am I not entitled to the same rights of opinion as these Spanish-lovers? It also may be that I have mostly been exposed to Mexican Spanish -- I have seen other threads on this forum that say even many Spanish speakers do not like the way it sounds. Maybe Spanish from Spain sounds much better. I wouldn't know because I only met one Spanish person in my life, when I was studying German in Germany at the Goethe Institut. He was very nice and charming and I certainly had no "Nazi" opinions about him. I'm not crazy about the way Italian sounds either -- but who cares? We all have different opinions and bullying up on someone is not going to make them like you anymore, and it especially is not going to make them change their mind about how they perceive your language or culture, except perhaps maybe for the worse. These people need to learn that it's easier to catch a fly with honey than vinegar, as we say. And one more thing: I am pretty sure that the statistics for the Modern Language Association have shown that German is on the RISE this year in the US, French is stagnant, and Spanish is on the decline for the first time in many years. I'm sure it will take some time for linguists and other professionals to analyze why this is happening. Also, regarding this G8 business - I am not one of the ones who said Spain should not be in the G8. I really don't care who is in the G8 as long as they really deserve to be there (i.e., their economy is one of the world's best). I'm not looking to pick a fight with anyone; HOWEVER, when ignorant people call me names and attack me and/or my ideas with baseless, shameless, emotionally-driven slander, I get a little ticked off. I also will never apologize for having an opinion that is different from the majority, no matter what the topic. People should respect each other's rights to think what they like. It seems there are a lot of Germanophobes and Francophobes in this forum who speak Spanish. I would love to know why.
<<Mon cher Gallophile: what vulgar, vulgar French! Such a nice language and in such bad hands. You are the best proof of the decadence of International French. >>
How many times do I have to tell you From Spain that my French isn't vulgar but common spoken French added with a flavor from French outside France? Pardonnes-moi si je te tutoie au lieu vouvoyer. Mon respect n'est pas pour toi. Arrêt de babiller, grognon! <<CHINESE IN ASIA, ENGLISH IN EUROPE, NORTH AMERICA AND OCEANIA, SPANISH IN CENTRAL AMERICA AND SOUTH AMERICA, AND ARABIC IN AFRICA AND MIDDLE EAST ARE THE LANGUAGES OF THE FUTURE AND THE MOST SPOKEN >> Sam, there goes again with your francophobe attitude. For your information French is the most widely used language in Africa next Arabic, English, Portuguese or Swahili in that order. Well as for North America, English is in majority but do you think the French Canadians and the Franco Americans will easily give up their tongue. Just wait and see! In Oceania too there are 4 French enclaves there. New Caledonia, French Polynesia, Wallis and Futuna, and Vanuatu. Do you really understand what you researched or do you also have deficiency in your reading comprehension? <<If Senegal, Congo or Togo start to study English, French will be less important than Polish.>> That will not ever happen because French is already part of the culture of Francophone Africa and it would cost them too much money, effort and time if they switch to English. They won't prosper with English. Look at Cambodia. Did they prosper after dumping French for English? On the contrary many citizens from former British Africa are fluent in French than the other way around. Have you heard the news or the issue when Nigeria was about to withdraw from British Commonwealth and make French as its official language. English grip on Africa is weak. The evidence, African countries facing the Indian Ocean are beginning to replace English with Swahili. While in Francophone Africa, the use of vernacular languages other than French in business, government, and broadcasting is forbidden. In South Africa and Namibia, Afrikaans(Cape Dutch) enjoys the status as not only an official language but the only lingua franca. So it is more likely that English speaking Africans will more likely to shift to French than the other way around.
<<It is very important how many people speak the language as mother tongue and as second language. For example, in Senegal French is spoken as second language. It is studied at school, but nobody speak this language as mother tongue. So, perhaps in the near future, they can change and study Arabic or English>>
And what about in former British Africa? Isn't it that nobody speaks English as mother toungue too? Senegal iks one of the most gallicized African nations. People there speak very fluen French unlike in former british Africa, the English is awkward. What you are thinking won't relly happen. Did you know that in Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia, Arabic is their national language but the language of business, government administration, most of publication, broadcasting, and even literature is done in French. Whenever an Egyptina, Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian, and Lebanese meet, they communicate in French because they are more comfortable in it. Don't get envious of the status of French. You're just using English to discredit French just because your Spanish is not useful outdisde Spain and Hispanic America.
Other important points:
Spain is at this moment the 8th more powerful country (World Bank): for political reasons is Russia and Canada in the G8, but China (4th) and Spain (8th) should be there. French is a weak language. That is not only my oppinion. In francophone meetings people say the same. France is working hard to promote French, but they know that French is mother tongue of 90 million people. That is real. That is not francophobe attitude. I read a repport of the Francophonie in internet (perhaps they are also francophobe). They say that French is only the 9th language in the world. A lot of languages are more spoken. Sorry, but in Africa the language more spoken is Arabic, not French. When I go to several European countries, there are a lot of people that speak Spanish (not only France or UK, but Scandinavian countries or Central Europe). In Instituto Cervantes repports the news are very very good in all Europe. Finally, David Graddol, a British expert, wrote a book, English Next. He says that ENGLISH, SPANISH, CHINESE AND ARABIC are the languages of the future. Is he francophobe? I don´t think so. It is more simple. Experts think French will be less important in the near future.
Deutsch ist gar nicht kompliziert ;-) Ich verstehe wirklich nicht, warum die Leute immer behaupten, dass deutsch eine schwierige Sprache ist???
Hispanophones keep citing their 400 million speakers of Spanish; then why is it a fact that:
"There are 200 million speakers of German worldwide. German is the most frequently studied language in the world after English and Japanese. Worldwide there are currently 20 million students of German. Of these, 13 million are in Europe, Eastern Europe and the former USSR, where it is the most commonly used second language. In the United States there are 600,000 students learning German. In Japan, 68% of students study German." ? By their logic, there should be twice as many people learning Spanish in the world as German. So why are English, Japanese, and German the most studied language in the world? Bet the Hispanophones will have NO ANSWER for this and keep saying that it's the population of the speakers that is so important. |