What makes French a Latin-Germanic mixed language

Leasnam   Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:20 pm GMT
@rep,

That is one (unconfirmed) opinion. You shouldn't take everything you read as fact. If you sit down and write out two passages to me in Old English and Old Norse for comparison, that might help.

Besides, in the first post he's comparing Old English to Old Icelandic. The varieties of Scandinavian spoken in England were to a greater extent Old Danish, not Old Icelandic.

It says the syntax was largely the same, and the lexis were had a high proportion in common--this doesn't mean "mutual intellibility". If so, then French and Spanish would be orally mutually intelligible, which they are not.

But it was a nice read : )


@pu,

<<Prepare to give up 70% of English vocabulary... good work! LOL >>

We already have. We only use the first 30-40% of our entire lexis now, which is precisely what we mean ;)
Guestor   Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:26 pm GMT
<<Exactly, plus vocabulary changes a lot. Maybe in the following decades English will give up those Romance words
----
Prepare to give up 70% of English vocabulary... good work! LOL
>>

That's ok. We are adopting German words to fill the slots

Handbook
Sibling
Foreword
Sprachraum
Angst
Blitz
Ersatz
Echt
Pretzel
Rucksack
Sprachbund
Urheimat
Wanderlust
Beerfest
Zeitgeist
Gesundheit
Doppelgaenger
Hinterland
Plunder
Poltergeist
Kindergarten
Ueber-
Wunderkind LOL
pu   Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:06 pm GMT
<< We already have. We only use the first 30-40% of our entire lexis now, which is precisely what we mean ;) >>

Maybe that is correct for you, because you're très simple. ;)
Cranium   Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:10 pm GMT
<<Maybe that is correct for you, because you're très simple. ;) >>

LOL, nope, you are wrong again :)

The whole French lexicon could fit into even 30-40% of ours, hehe. Your little paltry Sprache

what good is it except for to tell your gay lover how good he is in the rear :|)
pu   Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:24 pm GMT
Why are you so obsessed with homosexuality? You are clearly a closet homosexuel.
Buddy   Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:24 pm GMT
Look fellas, it doesn't matter. English is becoming less Renaissance-ical by the minute. Latinate infusion was just a passing fad, not only in English, but in almost all European languages, even Russian.
It's over now. And it's time to move on.
Schwulenhasser   Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:33 pm GMT
"to tell your gay lover how good he is in the rear :|)"

The English language is indeed strongly related to homosexuality.
How come the Anglosphere is so obsessed with anal intercourse?
Why are there much more gays in USA, Australia and UK than anywhere else on planet Earth?
Are they homos because the language is inherently effeminate or the other way around?
I'm French, Asshole   Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:45 pm GMT
<<The English language is indeed strongly related to homosexuality.
How come the Anglosphere is so obsessed with anal intercourse?
Why are there much more gays in USA, Australia and UK than anywhere else on planet Earth?
Are they homos because the language is inherently effeminate or the other way around? >>

Yeah, that's it.
Next stupid topic please.
Ouest   Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:07 am GMT
pu Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:01 pm GMT
-----
Western culture = synthesis of Roman and Germanic traditions
Romance language = synthesis of Roman and Germanic language
-----
correction:
Western culture = synthesis of Roman and Greek traditions
Romance language = synthesis of latin with very few german words
______________________________________

Please read the cited text http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/French/French.html
carefully:
"Northern France, where the synthesis of Roman and Germanic traditions brought about the development of new spiritual and institutional patterns that replaced the ancient Greco-Roman culture and civilization in the western part of Europe, was the core around which was formed the Western world."
"
This means: Western culture = synthesis of Roman and Germanic traditions and NOT Western culture = synthesis of Roman and Greek traditions
The following is correct:   Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:09 am GMT
Leasnam Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:34 pm GMT
<<The main point finally is not that Germanic language elements have entered into Romance and French languages, but that the massive settlement of Germanic speakers in formerly Latin speaking territory induced such a massive loss of structure and language tradition that the firm structure of Latin language almost dissappeared. A multitude of new dialects were born that led to new (Romance) languages. The Germanic immigration influenced the speed of "evolution" from Latin to Romance. The change from Latin to Romance cannot be described as "evolution", since Romance was the language of populations that never spoke Latin as native language. >>

Ouest, I completely agree with this statement.
A very similar thing happened in English as well, in areas heavily settled by Scandinavians (East and North of England). The communities, which were originally Norse speaking, were forced to convert to English after reconquest by the Kingdom of Wessex. Needless to say, the Scandinavians ended up speaking very bad (corrupt) English.

Since the Scandinavians in these areas were stour land-owners, and highly influential, their "brand" of English soon spread to the whole region, then spread south affecting the Midland varieties--the main constituents of Modern English. This is the reason why Modern English is so different from Old English in syntax and grammar.

Funny to note, other dialects of Middle English not affected by Old Norse remained close to Old English, namely Southern and Kentish. Even into the late ME period and early modern English period, English dialects in Kent remained close to Old English grammatical structures before eventually being displaced by Midland English. For a time the two structures coincided side by side. It was truly a survival of the fittest.
The truth is there...   Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:35 pm GMT
Among the romance languages, if we compare French, Italian and Spanish, it is Spanish that is the "outsider". Let's compare these simple everyday speah in the three languages. The obvious evidence is that french and Italian ones are almost equivelent while the spanish version is often going very far from French and Italian, and is almost unitelligible.



Toutes les journées se finissent ainsi:
Tutte le giornate si finiscono cosi:
Cada día se acaba asi:

Va mettre la table, j'ai faim!
Va' a mettere il tavolo, ho fame!
Ve a poner la mesa, tengo hambre!

Et alors, que veux-tu manger ce soir?
Ed allora, che cosa vuoi mangiare questa sera?
¿ Y entonces, que quieres comer esta tarde?

Je vais faire toutes les bonnes choses que tu aimes
Vado a fare tutte le buone cose che ami
Voy a hacer todas las buenas cosas que te gustan

Tu pourras prendre le reste pour demain matin, si tu en as trop
potrai prendere il resto per domani mattina, se ne hai troppo.
Podrás tomar el resto para mañana por la mañana, si lo tienes demasiado.
Guest   Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:12 pm GMT
You sellected phrases where French and Italian converge and Spanish diverges , but the same can be done with French and Spanish and it's Italian that diverges. That does not prove anything.

<<Toutes les journées se finissent ainsi:
Tutte le giornate si finiscono cosi:
Cada día se acaba asi:
>>

In Spanish it's : todos los días finalizan así. Anyways an Italian will understand better "dia" than yugggggné.
G7   Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:19 am GMT
Spanish, Italian and French are 100 miles away from classical Latin. French is only 1 mile further away....
Guest   Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:59 am GMT
Spanish, Italian and French don't derive from Classical Latin but from Vulgar Latin. I think that there were several Vulgar Latin, ones were more vulgar than the others, like that from where French derives.
guest   Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:47 pm GMT
" Toutes les journées se finissent ainsi:
Tutte le giornate si finiscono cosi:
Cada día se acaba asi:

Va mettre la table, j'ai faim!
Va' a mettere il tavolo, ho fame!
Ve a poner la mesa, tengo hambre!

Et alors, que veux-tu manger ce soir?
Ed allora, che cosa vuoi mangiare questa sera?
¿ Y entonces, que quieres comer esta tarde?

Je vais faire toutes les bonnes choses que tu aimes
Vado a fare tutte le buone cose che ami
Voy a hacer todas las buenas cosas que te gustan

Tu pourras prendre le reste pour demain matin, si tu en as trop
potrai prendere il resto per domani mattina, se ne hai troppo.
Podrás tomar el resto para mañana por la mañana, si lo tienes demasiado. "




Wao! I didn't french was so close to Italian! I understand now why french people don't agree when some people who don't know french and italian tell them that french is very different to the other languages.