Sorry, I meant to say that the French days of the week are closer with Italian.
Lexical similarities between French-Spanish-Italian
<<Because whoever is trying to imply this is 1. insecure 2. has an inferiority complex of some sort 3. is obsessed 4. is experiencing the first signs of mental breakdown.>>
I'm not obsessed, insecure or having a mental breakdown.
Maybe you who falls on the characteristics that you mentioned above. If you cannot accept the opinion of others then just explain your point without making conclusion that he/she is having a mental breakdown
To tell you honestly, I find you as the one who is experiencing a mental breakdown 1.) You cannot accept facts, 2.) You should not have replied on the messages that appear so silly and non-sense to you if you are mentally stable 3.) You get piqued too easily when this just a forum about languages 4.) There's no reason for you to tag anybody as having a mental breakdown because this is all about reasoning.
Are you really Spanish speaker? Did you enter this thread just to humiliate someone?
Based on your latest message you are the one who's 1. insecure 2. has an inferiority complex of some sort 3. is obsessed 4. is experiencing the first signs of mental breakdown. You're one of those obsessed individuals referred in other threads coming from TERCER MUNDO.
I'm not obsessed, insecure or having a mental breakdown.
Maybe you who falls on the characteristics that you mentioned above. If you cannot accept the opinion of others then just explain your point without making conclusion that he/she is having a mental breakdown
To tell you honestly, I find you as the one who is experiencing a mental breakdown 1.) You cannot accept facts, 2.) You should not have replied on the messages that appear so silly and non-sense to you if you are mentally stable 3.) You get piqued too easily when this just a forum about languages 4.) There's no reason for you to tag anybody as having a mental breakdown because this is all about reasoning.
Are you really Spanish speaker? Did you enter this thread just to humiliate someone?
Based on your latest message you are the one who's 1. insecure 2. has an inferiority complex of some sort 3. is obsessed 4. is experiencing the first signs of mental breakdown. You're one of those obsessed individuals referred in other threads coming from TERCER MUNDO.
<<Secondly, Clovis is right when he asked, "why is it so imporant to you?" that Spanish and italian be closer than French and Spanish.>>
Because the topic is about lexical similarities between the three languages. Would I post a message that is out of context.
Even if I'm not a linguist, my findings coincide with what others found out that the 2 are closer to each other.
You're too obsessed about the closeness of Spanish and Portuguese that even if the topic is which is closer to Spanish, French or Italian, you do't want Spanish/Portuguese to be likened to the other Romance languages. Now I know the reason that there so many posters in this forum who really dislike the Spanish language because in your norms and culture you think you are the best. No one or nothing can compare to your good looks(Do you all really look that good?). You think that you're superior that when others are antagonized by such action and start to aoid or look down on you that's the time you start having an inferiority complex.
If you're really Spanish speaker then don't be afraid to show you are and don't use Non-Spanish sounding names when you criticize the messages posted by others that you don't like just to make it appear that you Spanish speakers have good upbringing while outsiders are rough and rude. You only use Spanish names when you want to appear nice.\
BASURAS like you are not needed in this forum.
Because the topic is about lexical similarities between the three languages. Would I post a message that is out of context.
Even if I'm not a linguist, my findings coincide with what others found out that the 2 are closer to each other.
You're too obsessed about the closeness of Spanish and Portuguese that even if the topic is which is closer to Spanish, French or Italian, you do't want Spanish/Portuguese to be likened to the other Romance languages. Now I know the reason that there so many posters in this forum who really dislike the Spanish language because in your norms and culture you think you are the best. No one or nothing can compare to your good looks(Do you all really look that good?). You think that you're superior that when others are antagonized by such action and start to aoid or look down on you that's the time you start having an inferiority complex.
If you're really Spanish speaker then don't be afraid to show you are and don't use Non-Spanish sounding names when you criticize the messages posted by others that you don't like just to make it appear that you Spanish speakers have good upbringing while outsiders are rough and rude. You only use Spanish names when you want to appear nice.\
BASURAS like you are not needed in this forum.
bandera/bandiera vs drapeau → bandière, bannière (banderille)
belleza/belleza vs beauté → ancien français : belece, belesse, belté, bealté, beaulté,
con vs avec → contemporain, conjoint, convoi etc
denero/danaro,denaro vs pognon → denier
lata/latta vs bidon → latte
oficina/uffizio vs bureau → office, officine
rama/ramo vs branche → rameau, ramification
regalo vs cadeau → régal — ancien français : regale, rigale (festin) ; français classique : régale (cadeau)
sabado/sabato vs samedi → ancien français : sabmedi, samadi, samedi
tia/zia vs tante → <tia> & <zia> viennent du *grec* et <tante> du *latin* (amita)
tio/zio vs oncle → <tio> & <zio> viennent du *grec* et <oncle> du *latin* (avunculus)
belleza/belleza vs beauté → ancien français : belece, belesse, belté, bealté, beaulté,
con vs avec → contemporain, conjoint, convoi etc
denero/danaro,denaro vs pognon → denier
lata/latta vs bidon → latte
oficina/uffizio vs bureau → office, officine
rama/ramo vs branche → rameau, ramification
regalo vs cadeau → régal — ancien français : regale, rigale (festin) ; français classique : régale (cadeau)
sabado/sabato vs samedi → ancien français : sabmedi, samadi, samedi
tia/zia vs tante → <tia> & <zia> viennent du *grec* et <tante> du *latin* (amita)
tio/zio vs oncle → <tio> & <zio> viennent du *grec* et <oncle> du *latin* (avunculus)
Yes, French and Italian have 89% cognate words while Spanish and Italian 82%. But can you say that English is closer to French than to either Dutch or German since 60% of English words are French derivatives? You see words that are used in English on everyday basis are Non-French. The same analogy that can be given between the 3 languages. The words that are used in Spanish and Italian used on a daily basis are closer to each other than to their French counterparts. That's my point.
In Spanish and Italian words that end in "o" is masculine while in "a" is feminine while in French most words that end in consonant is ususlly masculine and those that end in silent "e" is usually feminine. Now even if the Italian words are cognate the French words, Spanish speakers would be able to have an idea of the gender of the Italian noun in an instant.
When I say "con", I'm talking about "with" not the words that use "con" as prefix, infix or suffix.
"Linda" is pretty not beautiful and it is a an adjective not noun as opposed to "belleza/bellezza". It is also found in Italian lexicon. The French equivalent of it is "Joli(e)".
You have to go back to your language lessons to know the differences between nouns, adjectives, verbs, prefix, suffix, and other parts of speech.
The words that I posted are used in everyday speech. Those that you posted are rarely used although they have the exact meaning.
My goodness! What kind of logic do you have? Imagine posting words that do not belong to the same PART OF SPEECH.
In Spanish and Italian words that end in "o" is masculine while in "a" is feminine while in French most words that end in consonant is ususlly masculine and those that end in silent "e" is usually feminine. Now even if the Italian words are cognate the French words, Spanish speakers would be able to have an idea of the gender of the Italian noun in an instant.
When I say "con", I'm talking about "with" not the words that use "con" as prefix, infix or suffix.
"Linda" is pretty not beautiful and it is a an adjective not noun as opposed to "belleza/bellezza". It is also found in Italian lexicon. The French equivalent of it is "Joli(e)".
You have to go back to your language lessons to know the differences between nouns, adjectives, verbs, prefix, suffix, and other parts of speech.
The words that I posted are used in everyday speech. Those that you posted are rarely used although they have the exact meaning.
My goodness! What kind of logic do you have? Imagine posting words that do not belong to the same PART OF SPEECH.
Greg,
On ne parle pas des anciens mots ou mots archaiques ici. Donnes des mots qui sont employés quotidiennement.
Merci bien!
On ne parle pas des anciens mots ou mots archaiques ici. Donnes des mots qui sont employés quotidiennement.
Merci bien!
Greg,
On ne parle pas des anciens mots ou mots archaiques ici. Donnez des mots qui sont employés quotidiennement, SVP.
Merci bien!
On ne parle pas des anciens mots ou mots archaiques ici. Donnez des mots qui sont employés quotidiennement, SVP.
Merci bien!
My oh my....observant, you really do get shaken up too easily. Many Italian words end in 'E' or 'I' which can be confusing i.e., 'Cose = things' and 'I Filgi = the children'. How am I, or any other Spanish speaker supposed to understand what 'i filgi' means? The problem with you Italians is that you can't stand the fact that Spanish, French and Portuguese are languages which are spoken globally as either official or national languages, or both, while Italian is, well...........................
Some Italians need to believe that the Italian language is something more than what it is, even if it's not true.
Some Italians need to believe that the Italian language is something more than what it is, even if it's not true.
Stoooooooooooop!!!!!!!!!!!!
All romance languages show a certain similarity and every neolatin- speaker can understand at least something of other neolatin languages.
Probabily italian is closer to french than to spanish as lexicon but of course italian and spanish are very very near in phonetics and in structure.
Anyway!!!! why is important for you???? The only important think is that everyone should speak correctly his own language and, unfortunately, this doesn't happen in Italy where everyone often speak a different italian language (a regional variant), sometime very very very far from the standard italian lan.
All romance languages show a certain similarity and every neolatin- speaker can understand at least something of other neolatin languages.
Probabily italian is closer to french than to spanish as lexicon but of course italian and spanish are very very near in phonetics and in structure.
Anyway!!!! why is important for you???? The only important think is that everyone should speak correctly his own language and, unfortunately, this doesn't happen in Italy where everyone often speak a different italian language (a regional variant), sometime very very very far from the standard italian lan.
Okay time out everyone! Cooler heads must prevail here. I am going to try and put this discussion into perspective, and then hoepfully we can dialogue like sensible grownups.
Italian & French = 89% lexical similarity + grammar and syntax are very close.
Italian & Spanish = 82% lexical similarity + very close phonetics
Portuguese & Italian = % lexical similarity?? (my guess is at least 82%)
Spanish & Portuguese = 89% lexical similarity + grammar and syntax are very close
Spanish & French = 75% lexical similarity + resonably similar grammar
Portuguese & French = 75% lexical similarity + reasonably similar phonetics
All things being equal, this is the basic blueprint. Naturally, levels of intelligibility will either increase or decrease between speakers of any 2 of these languages on the basis of education, influence of regional dialectal accents (i.e., the Brazilian Portuguese accent sounds more like the Latin American Spanish accent, northern Italian speach has more of a French accent) etc. Intelligibilty levels also hinge on who is doing the talking, and who is doing the listening. That's the long and the short of it.
Italian & French = 89% lexical similarity + grammar and syntax are very close.
Italian & Spanish = 82% lexical similarity + very close phonetics
Portuguese & Italian = % lexical similarity?? (my guess is at least 82%)
Spanish & Portuguese = 89% lexical similarity + grammar and syntax are very close
Spanish & French = 75% lexical similarity + resonably similar grammar
Portuguese & French = 75% lexical similarity + reasonably similar phonetics
All things being equal, this is the basic blueprint. Naturally, levels of intelligibility will either increase or decrease between speakers of any 2 of these languages on the basis of education, influence of regional dialectal accents (i.e., the Brazilian Portuguese accent sounds more like the Latin American Spanish accent, northern Italian speach has more of a French accent) etc. Intelligibilty levels also hinge on who is doing the talking, and who is doing the listening. That's the long and the short of it.
Observant : « On ne parle pas des anciens mots ou mots archaiques ici. Donnez des mots qui sont employés quotidiennement, SVP. Merci bien! ».
Mais je pense que tu te fourvoies avec une telle approche : tu n'as pas compris à quel point la comparaison de mots (signifiants) désignant des êtres, choses ou concepts (signifiés) peut être doublement improductive. Doublement car 1 / au sein d'une langue la relation entre signifié et signifiant est arbitraire — 2/ entre deux (voire trois) langues distinctes, la relation entre signifiants de langues différentes et le signifié est totalement hasardeuse. Sans parler des glissements sémantiques possibles. Traduttore traditore.
Non, vraiment, ce n'est pas que ta remarque me choque. Ce qui m'intrigue c'est que tu n'aies pas pris la peine de réfléchir à la portée de ce que tu as écrit.
Observant : « Yes, French and Italian have 89% cognate words while Spanish and Italian 82%. ».
Intéressant ces pourcentages fièrement exhibés à l'unité près... Tu as sans doute un commencement de preuve à nous proposer pour vérifier ce que tu affirmes ?
Mais je pense que tu te fourvoies avec une telle approche : tu n'as pas compris à quel point la comparaison de mots (signifiants) désignant des êtres, choses ou concepts (signifiés) peut être doublement improductive. Doublement car 1 / au sein d'une langue la relation entre signifié et signifiant est arbitraire — 2/ entre deux (voire trois) langues distinctes, la relation entre signifiants de langues différentes et le signifié est totalement hasardeuse. Sans parler des glissements sémantiques possibles. Traduttore traditore.
Non, vraiment, ce n'est pas que ta remarque me choque. Ce qui m'intrigue c'est que tu n'aies pas pris la peine de réfléchir à la portée de ce que tu as écrit.
Observant : « Yes, French and Italian have 89% cognate words while Spanish and Italian 82%. ».
Intéressant ces pourcentages fièrement exhibés à l'unité près... Tu as sans doute un commencement de preuve à nous proposer pour vérifier ce que tu affirmes ?
Agustin
You are differenty from many native Spanish speakers that enter this forum. While they are proud whenever they read a message saying that Spanish and Italian are so close, you feel the opposite. It is like you hate anything about Italian language.
In other threads, many Spanish speaker find Italian much easier to understand than Portuguese because of phonological reasons and they really defend what their findings.
Well anyway, I would like to react on what you said that Italian is not globaly spoken as French, Spanish, and Portuguese. Italian is the number 1 foreign language in Slovenia, Croatia, Albania, Malta (Not counting English). Albanians use it to communicate with Croats, Slovenes and Maltese people, therefore it can rightfully claim itself as lingua franca outside Italy.
It is still spoken in former italian possessions like Libya, Eritrea, and Somalia. The role of Italian in Somalia is big. It is important in education, commerce, literature and so on.
The number of individuals who study Italians in the US and UK has risen because there are many Non-Native Italian speaking singers recorded albums with Italian songs in them.
You must remember that Italians were the ones who come upo with such musical terms as soprano, staccato, tenor, alto, octave, and do re mi fa so and so on. And so Italian may like lack Mexico, Colombia, Argentina and so on but music is an important instrument to make a very important language in the world.
You are differenty from many native Spanish speakers that enter this forum. While they are proud whenever they read a message saying that Spanish and Italian are so close, you feel the opposite. It is like you hate anything about Italian language.
In other threads, many Spanish speaker find Italian much easier to understand than Portuguese because of phonological reasons and they really defend what their findings.
Well anyway, I would like to react on what you said that Italian is not globaly spoken as French, Spanish, and Portuguese. Italian is the number 1 foreign language in Slovenia, Croatia, Albania, Malta (Not counting English). Albanians use it to communicate with Croats, Slovenes and Maltese people, therefore it can rightfully claim itself as lingua franca outside Italy.
It is still spoken in former italian possessions like Libya, Eritrea, and Somalia. The role of Italian in Somalia is big. It is important in education, commerce, literature and so on.
The number of individuals who study Italians in the US and UK has risen because there are many Non-Native Italian speaking singers recorded albums with Italian songs in them.
You must remember that Italians were the ones who come upo with such musical terms as soprano, staccato, tenor, alto, octave, and do re mi fa so and so on. And so Italian may like lack Mexico, Colombia, Argentina and so on but music is an important instrument to make a very important language in the world.
<< Many Italian words end in 'E' or 'I' which can be confusing i.e., 'Cose = things' and 'I Filgi = the children'. How am I, or any other Spanish speaker supposed to understand what 'i filgi' means? The problem with you Italians is that you can't stand the fact that Spanish, French and Portuguese are languages which are spoken globally as either official or national languages, or both, while Italian is, well...........................
Some Italians need to believe that the Italian language is something more than what it is, even if it's not true. >>
Spanish is a raw cooked, half baked, Italian wannabe language.
Some Italians need to believe that the Italian language is something more than what it is, even if it's not true. >>
Spanish is a raw cooked, half baked, Italian wannabe language.
For the love of God. I leave for months only to return and see this stale old debate is still going on? It's not healthy. No one is denying that there are a lot of similarities between all the neo-Latin languages, but you can't change reality: Spanish and Portuguese are far closer to each other than any of the other Romance languages. Punto e basta! Che vi costa accettarlo?
Spanish and Italian are closer due to phonetic similarties and so they're intelligible because of their 82% (vocabulary) percentage.
Portuguese-speakers would most likely 'only' understand Spanish-speakers THEN the other way around, because, Spanish is similar to Portuguese 89% (vocabulary) and Spanish pronunciation is intelligible towards Portuguese-speakers.
Spanish is like a medium BETWEEN Italian and Portuguese. However, spanish-speakers of the states and mexico prefer to learn Italian. Even I see DRAMA series of Telemundo, Televisa & Univision have actors of Italian origin or actors that portray them speak with the Spanish-speakers and they understand eachother waaay more then a French or a Portuguese / Brazilian. Why is that? Unless there is some truth in what I say, eh?
In the end, phonetic similarity triumphs over lexical similarity.
Portuguese-speakers would most likely 'only' understand Spanish-speakers THEN the other way around, because, Spanish is similar to Portuguese 89% (vocabulary) and Spanish pronunciation is intelligible towards Portuguese-speakers.
Spanish is like a medium BETWEEN Italian and Portuguese. However, spanish-speakers of the states and mexico prefer to learn Italian. Even I see DRAMA series of Telemundo, Televisa & Univision have actors of Italian origin or actors that portray them speak with the Spanish-speakers and they understand eachother waaay more then a French or a Portuguese / Brazilian. Why is that? Unless there is some truth in what I say, eh?
In the end, phonetic similarity triumphs over lexical similarity.