Dream on Mr. Guest. You are an obsessed fool! As most people on this forum have attested to time and time again, Portuguese and Spanish are the undisputed closest romance languages, period! Accept it once and for all and maybe then we can all have sensible discussions here. Your phonetics rhetoric stinks already! Your a hispanic wannabe and you'll never be. The brother languages of Europe and Latin America are Spanish and Portuguese - very close brothers, always have been, always will be.
Lexical similarities between French-Spanish-Italian
Wishful thinking Agustin....wishful thinking...
"The brother languages of Europe and Latin America are Spanish and Portuguese - very close brothers, always have been, always will be."
Wishful thinking. The Spanish hate the Portuguese more then the French. Don't you know this? I bet you're a Brazilian whom is currently learning to pronounced spanish correctly, without his nose...hahah. The Portuguese are detested by the Spanish. So how are they close brothers??? They're not.
Castilian slang for the Portuguese and the French.
Poronchos -portis
Gabachos -frenchies
-The Spanish have always felt closer to the Italians, rather then the Portuguese.
Phonetics matter Agustin.
"The brother languages of Europe and Latin America are Spanish and Portuguese - very close brothers, always have been, always will be."
Wishful thinking. The Spanish hate the Portuguese more then the French. Don't you know this? I bet you're a Brazilian whom is currently learning to pronounced spanish correctly, without his nose...hahah. The Portuguese are detested by the Spanish. So how are they close brothers??? They're not.
Castilian slang for the Portuguese and the French.
Poronchos -portis
Gabachos -frenchies
-The Spanish have always felt closer to the Italians, rather then the Portuguese.
Phonetics matter Agustin.
Damn, you guys are still busy trying to find out which Latin languages are closest together? Who cares? What matters is you can learn any of them more easily if you already speak one, because they all share a majority of similar vocabulary. And no matter how close they are, you'll still have an awkward and loosy understanding of what is being said if you don't study them.
<<Dream on Mr. Guest. You are an obsessed fool! As most people on this forum have attested to time and time again, Portuguese and Spanish are the undisputed closest romance languages, period! Accept it once and for all and maybe then we can all have sensible discussions here. Your phonetics rhetoric stinks already! Your a hispanic wannabe and you'll never be. The brother languages of Europe and Latin America are Spanish and Portuguese - very close brothers, always have been, always will be. >>
Not all the time, Agustin. I read in other threads in this forum and one of which is a Spaniard and in his/message that if You out an Italian or portuguese in front of him/her, he/she would understand the Italian guy and there are other Spanish speakers who have attested this same findings like a number of Mexicans who posted their messages her.
I agree with guess that phonology does a lot more than lexical similarities or cognates.
Not all the time, Agustin. I read in other threads in this forum and one of which is a Spaniard and in his/message that if You out an Italian or portuguese in front of him/her, he/she would understand the Italian guy and there are other Spanish speakers who have attested this same findings like a number of Mexicans who posted their messages her.
I agree with guess that phonology does a lot more than lexical similarities or cognates.
<<Dream on Mr. Guest. You are an obsessed fool! As most people on this forum have attested to time and time again, Portuguese and Spanish are the undisputed closest romance languages, period! Accept it once and for all and maybe then we can all have sensible discussions here. Your phonetics rhetoric stinks already! Your a hispanic wannabe and you'll never be. The brother languages of Europe and Latin America are Spanish and Portuguese - very close brothers, always have been, always will be. >>
Not all the time, Agustin. I read in other threads in this forum and one of which is a Spaniard and in his/message that if You put an Italian or portuguese in front of him/her, he/she would understand the Italian guy much better and there are other Spanish speakers who have attested this same findings like a number of Mexicans who posted their messages here.
I agree with guess that phonology does a lot more than lexical similarities or cognates.
It's true that lexical similarities between Spanish and Portuguese is 89% while Spanish and Italian is 82%. But in my opinion the phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian is over 95% while that between Spanish and Portuguese is probably below 60%.
And so the combined strength of the 82% lexical and the high percentage phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian weakened the 89% lexical similarities between Spanish and Potuguese.
French and Italian are said to be 89% lexically similar higher than that between French and Spanish which is 82%. But French and Italian speakers that have no knowledge of each other's language could not communicate with each other while Spanish and Italian speakers can.
I have a suggestion. Why don't you put together five year old toddlers who are Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese speakers to find out which of the two who would understand each other better using their respective languages.
Not all the time, Agustin. I read in other threads in this forum and one of which is a Spaniard and in his/message that if You put an Italian or portuguese in front of him/her, he/she would understand the Italian guy much better and there are other Spanish speakers who have attested this same findings like a number of Mexicans who posted their messages here.
I agree with guess that phonology does a lot more than lexical similarities or cognates.
It's true that lexical similarities between Spanish and Portuguese is 89% while Spanish and Italian is 82%. But in my opinion the phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian is over 95% while that between Spanish and Portuguese is probably below 60%.
And so the combined strength of the 82% lexical and the high percentage phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian weakened the 89% lexical similarities between Spanish and Potuguese.
French and Italian are said to be 89% lexically similar higher than that between French and Spanish which is 82%. But French and Italian speakers that have no knowledge of each other's language could not communicate with each other while Spanish and Italian speakers can.
I have a suggestion. Why don't you put together five year old toddlers who are Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese speakers to find out which of the two who would understand each other better using their respective languages.
I don't care what languages are closer together, I think you can't really answer that question. But I though it would be interesting to compare tales. I picked up Il piccolo principe/Le petit Prince/El Principito because it's available in so many languages. Feel free to add translations in other Romance languages.
In quel momento apparve la volpe.
C'est alors qu'apparut le renard.
Fue entonces que apareció el zorro:
- Buon giorno, disse la volpe.
- Bonjour, dit le renard.
- Buen día - dijo el zorro.
- Buon giorno, rispose gentilmente il piccolo principe, voltandosi: ma non vide nessuno.
- Bonjour, répondit poliment le petit prince, qui se retourna mais ne vit rien.
- Buen día – respondió cortésmente el principito, que se dio vuelta pero no vio a nadie.
- Sono qui, disse la voce, sotto al melo…
- Je suis là, dit la voix, sous le pommier...
- Estoy aquí, dijo la voz, bajo el manzano...
- Chi sei? domandò il piccolo principe, sei molto carino…
- Qui es-tu? dit le petit prince. Tu es bien joli...
- Quién eres ? – dijo el principito. – Eres muy bonito...
- Sono la volpe, disse la volpe.
- Je suis un renard, dit le renard.
- Soy un zorro, dijo el zorro.
- Vieni a giocare con me, le propose il piccolo principe, sono così triste…
- Viens jouer avec moi, lui proposa le petit prince. Je suis tellement triste...
- Ven a jugar conmigo, le propuso el principito. Estoy tan triste...
- Non posso giocare con te, disse la volpe, non sono addomesticata
- Je ne puis pas jouer avec toi, dit le renard. Je ne suis pas apprivoisé.
- No puedo jugar contigo, dijo el zorro. No estoy domesticado.
- Ah! scusa, fece il piccolo principe.
- Ah! pardon, fit le petit prince.
- Ah! perdón, dijo el principito.
Some key words are totally different in the three languages:
volpe/renard/zorro
nessuno/personne/nadie
gentilmente/poliment/cortésmente
voltarsi/se retourner/darse vuelta
sotto/sous/bajo
melo/pommier/manzano
Some are very similar:
Venir a giocare/Venir jouer/Venir a jugar
rispondere/répondre/responder
dire/dire/decir
proporre/proposer/proponer
In quel momento apparve la volpe.
C'est alors qu'apparut le renard.
Fue entonces que apareció el zorro:
- Buon giorno, disse la volpe.
- Bonjour, dit le renard.
- Buen día - dijo el zorro.
- Buon giorno, rispose gentilmente il piccolo principe, voltandosi: ma non vide nessuno.
- Bonjour, répondit poliment le petit prince, qui se retourna mais ne vit rien.
- Buen día – respondió cortésmente el principito, que se dio vuelta pero no vio a nadie.
- Sono qui, disse la voce, sotto al melo…
- Je suis là, dit la voix, sous le pommier...
- Estoy aquí, dijo la voz, bajo el manzano...
- Chi sei? domandò il piccolo principe, sei molto carino…
- Qui es-tu? dit le petit prince. Tu es bien joli...
- Quién eres ? – dijo el principito. – Eres muy bonito...
- Sono la volpe, disse la volpe.
- Je suis un renard, dit le renard.
- Soy un zorro, dijo el zorro.
- Vieni a giocare con me, le propose il piccolo principe, sono così triste…
- Viens jouer avec moi, lui proposa le petit prince. Je suis tellement triste...
- Ven a jugar conmigo, le propuso el principito. Estoy tan triste...
- Non posso giocare con te, disse la volpe, non sono addomesticata
- Je ne puis pas jouer avec toi, dit le renard. Je ne suis pas apprivoisé.
- No puedo jugar contigo, dijo el zorro. No estoy domesticado.
- Ah! scusa, fece il piccolo principe.
- Ah! pardon, fit le petit prince.
- Ah! perdón, dijo el principito.
Some key words are totally different in the three languages:
volpe/renard/zorro
nessuno/personne/nadie
gentilmente/poliment/cortésmente
voltarsi/se retourner/darse vuelta
sotto/sous/bajo
melo/pommier/manzano
Some are very similar:
Venir a giocare/Venir jouer/Venir a jugar
rispondere/répondre/responder
dire/dire/decir
proporre/proposer/proponer
Okay, here is the same text with Portuguese included. Without any knowledge of the other languages, only the people speaking Portuguese and Spanish to each other would know that they are talking about a fox.
(spanish speakers know raposa is a fox)
- In quel momento apparve la volpe. (Italian)
- C'est alors qu'apparut le renard. (French)
- Fue entonces que apareció el zorro. (Spanish)
- Foi entao que apareceu a raposa. (Portuguese)
- Buon giorno, disse la volpe.
- Bonjour, dit le renard.
- Buen día - dijo el zorro.
- Bom dia - disse a raposa.
- Buon giorno, rispose gentilmente il piccolo principe, voltandosi: ma non vide nessuno.
- Bonjour, répondit poliment le petit prince, qui se retourna mais ne vit rien.
- Buen día – respondió cortésmente el principito, que se dio vuelta pero no vio a nadie.
- Bom dia - respondeu cortesmente o principinho, que deu a volta mas
nao viu ninguem
('pricipinho' can also be said 'principe pequeno')
- Sono qui, disse la voce, sotto al melo…
- Je suis là, dit la voix, sous le pommier...
- Estoy aquí, dijo la voz, bajo el manzano...
- Estou aqui, disse a voz, baixo a macieira...
- Chi sei? domandò il piccolo principe, sei molto carino…
- Qui es-tu? dit le petit prince. Tu es bien joli...
- Quién eres ? – dijo el principito. – Eres muy bonito...
- Quem eres? - disse o principinho - Eres muito bonito...
- Sono la volpe, disse la volpe.
- Je suis un renard, dit le renard.
- Soy un zorro, dijo el zorro.
- Sou uma raposa, disse a raposa.
- Vieni a giocare con me, le propose il piccolo principe, sono così triste…
- Viens jouer avec moi, lui proposa le petit prince. Je suis tellement triste...
- Ven a jugar conmigo, le propuso el principito. Estoy tan triste...
- Vem jogar comigo, lhe propos o principinho. Estou tao triste...
- Non posso giocare con te, disse la volpe, non sono addomesticata
- Je ne puis pas jouer avec toi, dit le renard. Je ne suis pas apprivoisé.
- No puedo jugar contigo, dijo el zorro. No estoy domesticado.
- Nao posso jogar contigo, disse a raposa. Nao estou domesticada.
- Ah! scusa, fece il piccolo principe.
- Ah! pardon, fit le petit prince.
- Ah! perdón, dijo el principito.
- Ah! perdao, disse o principinho.
(spanish speakers know raposa is a fox)
- In quel momento apparve la volpe. (Italian)
- C'est alors qu'apparut le renard. (French)
- Fue entonces que apareció el zorro. (Spanish)
- Foi entao que apareceu a raposa. (Portuguese)
- Buon giorno, disse la volpe.
- Bonjour, dit le renard.
- Buen día - dijo el zorro.
- Bom dia - disse a raposa.
- Buon giorno, rispose gentilmente il piccolo principe, voltandosi: ma non vide nessuno.
- Bonjour, répondit poliment le petit prince, qui se retourna mais ne vit rien.
- Buen día – respondió cortésmente el principito, que se dio vuelta pero no vio a nadie.
- Bom dia - respondeu cortesmente o principinho, que deu a volta mas
nao viu ninguem
('pricipinho' can also be said 'principe pequeno')
- Sono qui, disse la voce, sotto al melo…
- Je suis là, dit la voix, sous le pommier...
- Estoy aquí, dijo la voz, bajo el manzano...
- Estou aqui, disse a voz, baixo a macieira...
- Chi sei? domandò il piccolo principe, sei molto carino…
- Qui es-tu? dit le petit prince. Tu es bien joli...
- Quién eres ? – dijo el principito. – Eres muy bonito...
- Quem eres? - disse o principinho - Eres muito bonito...
- Sono la volpe, disse la volpe.
- Je suis un renard, dit le renard.
- Soy un zorro, dijo el zorro.
- Sou uma raposa, disse a raposa.
- Vieni a giocare con me, le propose il piccolo principe, sono così triste…
- Viens jouer avec moi, lui proposa le petit prince. Je suis tellement triste...
- Ven a jugar conmigo, le propuso el principito. Estoy tan triste...
- Vem jogar comigo, lhe propos o principinho. Estou tao triste...
- Non posso giocare con te, disse la volpe, non sono addomesticata
- Je ne puis pas jouer avec toi, dit le renard. Je ne suis pas apprivoisé.
- No puedo jugar contigo, dijo el zorro. No estoy domesticado.
- Nao posso jogar contigo, disse a raposa. Nao estou domesticada.
- Ah! scusa, fece il piccolo principe.
- Ah! pardon, fit le petit prince.
- Ah! perdón, dijo el principito.
- Ah! perdao, disse o principinho.
So sometimes the Portuguese may not understand a certain Spanish word i.e., 'zorro=fox', but the Spanish speakers will understand our word 'raposa=f.fox' which may not be thier common word, but they do have it in their dictionary, and know the meaning of it well. It's almost always like this with Spanish and Portuguese. That is why we have no trouble at all understanding one another - our vocabulary is almost 90% the same. And the words that are different we work around. No problem.
Tiffany said: <<No one is denying that there are a lot of similarities between all the neo-Latin languages, but you can't change reality: Spanish and Portuguese are far closer to each other than any of the other Romance languages. Punto e basta! Che vi costa accettarlo? >>
This is my first time here, but I have read many of the messages before posting this. I am of Italian descent and I majored in Romance languages at the university: Italian, French and Spanish. Here's the interesting thing. My co-worker of Portuguese descent, who never studied Romance languages at any school, is actually able to carry on a fluid conversation with the Spanish speaking Ecuadorian lady at the coffee shop downstairs. And then there's me, who studied Spanish at university for 4 years, and I can only have a broken conversation with that same Ecuadorian lady. It's been at least 10 years since I finished school, but still.
This is my first time here, but I have read many of the messages before posting this. I am of Italian descent and I majored in Romance languages at the university: Italian, French and Spanish. Here's the interesting thing. My co-worker of Portuguese descent, who never studied Romance languages at any school, is actually able to carry on a fluid conversation with the Spanish speaking Ecuadorian lady at the coffee shop downstairs. And then there's me, who studied Spanish at university for 4 years, and I can only have a broken conversation with that same Ecuadorian lady. It's been at least 10 years since I finished school, but still.
not to sound sumb or anything but can anyone tell me the meaning of Lexical similarities...?
1. Dose sit mean when 2 words are spelled and pronouce alike, and mean the samthing...? for example
IT: Mano, Madre
SP: Mano, Madre
2. Or when they are spelled almost alike but mean the same thing
IT: Manchi
FR: Manque
------------------
IT: chiave
SP: llave
3. Or when they are spelled diffrently but pronunced somewhat close
SP: Padre
FR: Pere
4. Or when they are spelled teh same way but diffrent meanings
PT: Fortuna
IT: Fortuna
Thanks
1. Dose sit mean when 2 words are spelled and pronouce alike, and mean the samthing...? for example
IT: Mano, Madre
SP: Mano, Madre
2. Or when they are spelled almost alike but mean the same thing
IT: Manchi
FR: Manque
------------------
IT: chiave
SP: llave
3. Or when they are spelled diffrently but pronunced somewhat close
SP: Padre
FR: Pere
4. Or when they are spelled teh same way but diffrent meanings
PT: Fortuna
IT: Fortuna
Thanks
Spanish and Italian are still intelligble. I highly suspect the person who wrote the sentences above me, is indeed, a Brazilian trying to make Spanish LOOK closer to Portuguese. As a result, he or she uses Spanish-grammar to be comparable towards Portuguese, while, making Italian seem a total opposite.
For example:
Chi sei tu? Disse il piccolo principe, sei molto carino… ITALIAN
Quién eres tú? Dijo el pequeño príncipe, eres muy bonito... SPANISH
Buon giorno, disse la volpe. ITALIAN
Buenos días, dijo el zorro. SPANISH ('Buen día' is rarely used)
Disse il piccolo principe. / Ha detto il piccolo principe. ITALIAN
Dijo el pequeño príncipe. / Ha dicho el pequeño príncipe. SPANISH
......................
to Annalina:
if you studied Spanish for 4 years and you still don't quite understand Spanish, then 1 you're lying, because, you're a brazilian in disguse. Or 2, you didn't pay attention in class. and finally 3, you speak to fast to be understood.
to Cinderello:
Agreed. It's not all black and white as these 'hot-headed' brazilian depict. The funny thing is that, Brazil houses millions upon millons of Italians. More then Argentina. it's ridiculous.
"I agree with guess that phonology does a lot more than lexical similarities or cognates."
Exactly. Phonology plays a huge part in intelligiblity. Phonology matters.
>>>>>>
Cinderello wrote:
"It's true that lexical similarities between Spanish and Portuguese is 89% while Spanish and Italian is 82%. But in my opinion the phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian is over 95% while that between Spanish and Portuguese is probably below 60%. And so the combined strength of the 82% lexical and the high percentage phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian weakened the 89% lexical similarities between Spanish and Potuguese."
This is what I and LAA, Aldvm, Sergio? and others have concluded and have agreed upon.
......................
The following words have mutual meaning and are understood by both Italian and Spansh speakers.
Italian:
nessuno {no, nobody, no one}
Spanish:
nadie {nobody, no-one}
ningún / ninguno {no, none; (person) nobody, no one}
---
Italian:
gentile {kind}
Spanish:
agradable / amable / gentil {kind}
---
Italian:
voltarsi
Spanish:
darse vuelta / voltearse* I've heard this used in Mexico and California.
---
Italian:
sotto {under} -preposition =Sotto voce.
Spanish:
bajo / so {under} -preposition =So voz. So capa de. So color de. So pena de. So pretexto.
>>>>>
Source>
http://www.rae.es
For example:
Chi sei tu? Disse il piccolo principe, sei molto carino… ITALIAN
Quién eres tú? Dijo el pequeño príncipe, eres muy bonito... SPANISH
Buon giorno, disse la volpe. ITALIAN
Buenos días, dijo el zorro. SPANISH ('Buen día' is rarely used)
Disse il piccolo principe. / Ha detto il piccolo principe. ITALIAN
Dijo el pequeño príncipe. / Ha dicho el pequeño príncipe. SPANISH
......................
to Annalina:
if you studied Spanish for 4 years and you still don't quite understand Spanish, then 1 you're lying, because, you're a brazilian in disguse. Or 2, you didn't pay attention in class. and finally 3, you speak to fast to be understood.
to Cinderello:
Agreed. It's not all black and white as these 'hot-headed' brazilian depict. The funny thing is that, Brazil houses millions upon millons of Italians. More then Argentina. it's ridiculous.
"I agree with guess that phonology does a lot more than lexical similarities or cognates."
Exactly. Phonology plays a huge part in intelligiblity. Phonology matters.
>>>>>>
Cinderello wrote:
"It's true that lexical similarities between Spanish and Portuguese is 89% while Spanish and Italian is 82%. But in my opinion the phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian is over 95% while that between Spanish and Portuguese is probably below 60%. And so the combined strength of the 82% lexical and the high percentage phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian weakened the 89% lexical similarities between Spanish and Potuguese."
This is what I and LAA, Aldvm, Sergio? and others have concluded and have agreed upon.
......................
The following words have mutual meaning and are understood by both Italian and Spansh speakers.
Italian:
nessuno {no, nobody, no one}
Spanish:
nadie {nobody, no-one}
ningún / ninguno {no, none; (person) nobody, no one}
---
Italian:
gentile {kind}
Spanish:
agradable / amable / gentil {kind}
---
Italian:
voltarsi
Spanish:
darse vuelta / voltearse* I've heard this used in Mexico and California.
---
Italian:
sotto {under} -preposition =Sotto voce.
Spanish:
bajo / so {under} -preposition =So voz. So capa de. So color de. So pena de. So pretexto.
>>>>>
Source>
http://www.rae.es
" The following words have mutual meaning and are understood by both Italian, and Spanish speakers "
nothing special... same for french
---
Italian:
gentile {kind}
Français:
gentil / Aimable / Agreable
Spanish:
agradable / amable / gentil {kind}
---
Italian:
voltarsi
Spanish:
darse vuelta / voltearse* I've heard this used in Mexico and California.
French:
faire volte face
---
Italian:
sotto {under} -preposition =Sotto voce.
French:
sous (under)
Spanish:
bajo / so {under} -preposition =So voz. So capa de. So color de. So pena de. So pretexto.
nothing special... same for french
---
Italian:
gentile {kind}
Français:
gentil / Aimable / Agreable
Spanish:
agradable / amable / gentil {kind}
---
Italian:
voltarsi
Spanish:
darse vuelta / voltearse* I've heard this used in Mexico and California.
French:
faire volte face
---
Italian:
sotto {under} -preposition =Sotto voce.
French:
sous (under)
Spanish:
bajo / so {under} -preposition =So voz. So capa de. So color de. So pena de. So pretexto.
Marc, whoever you are, you are GRASPING at straws. The sentences that were given are fine, and I believe taken directly out of some book. Why must you always think that Brazilians, or Portuguese, or whomever, have to twist anything to make it appear a certain way?? First of all, no Spanish speaker would ever know what 'Volpe' means, whereas he would surely know what 'Raposa' means. The Portuguese and Spanish speakers would get the whole story for sure in both these languages. This is a fact. After all, the story was about a small prince and a Fox. Thus, an Italian would have effectively only understood half of the intended meaning of the story. This is not rocket science.
But since you persist with your rhetoric, I'll humour you.
Chi sei tu? Disse il piccolo principe, sei molto carino… ITALIAN
Quién eres tú? Dijo el pequeño príncipe, eres muy bonito... SPANISH
Quem eres tu? Disse o principe pequeno, eres muito bonito...PORT.
Buon giorno, disse la volpe. ITALIAN
Buenos días, dijo el zorro. SPANISH ('Buen día' is how it is in the story)
Bom dia, disse a raposa PORT.(all spanish speakers know what raposa is)
*the Italian would be out of the loop here for sure, because the Spanish & Portuguese speakers would both know what 'raposa' is, but not the Italian. After all, the 'Fox' is a very, very important part of the story.
I digress....
<<But in my opinion the phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian is over 95% while that between Spanish and Portuguese is probably below 60%. And so the combined strength of the 82% lexical and the high percentage phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian weakened the 89% lexical similarities between Spanish and Potuguese.">>
Marc, are you for real here? You're throwing numbers around here arbitrarily. What kind of logic is this supposed to be? Is anyone supposed to believe that Spanish and Italian are 95% phonologically similar on your say so only? Give us evidence from any scholar worth his/her salt that will substantiate this preposterous claim. Just do some research anywhere in academia and you will surely find that all of the major studies put Spanish and Portuguese as the closest romance languages in every way in terms of intelligibilty. This is not fiction, this is fact! The majority of posts in this forum by Spanish and Portuguese speakers confirm this, and the few that don't are fabrications by one or two individuals here who are pipe dreamers and out to cause discord. And you use LAA, Aldvm, Sergio and Cinderello to try and strengthen your erroneous claims?? Don't stoop that low for goodness sake. And although I can't prove it, I suspect those guys are one and the same. In fact, even as I write this I have this feeling that you are not who you say you are.
'Nessuno' in Italian is not 'Nadie' in Spanish
'Sotto' in Italian is not ' Bajo' in Spanish
'Voltarsi' in Italian is not 'Darse Vuelta' in Spanish
et., et., etc., apples are apples, and oranges are oranges
Some Italians here just want to twist and turn everything inside out to make the Italian and Spanish words appear remotely similar to one another - but all your doing is splitting hairs, and very fine ones at that. In the real world when two people are talking, they don't have the time to stop every second to check a dictionary to see if there is a cognate, alternate spelling, alternate word, etc., etc. What we are talking about here is your average Italian Joe who is walking down the street and meets a Spanish speaker, and they try to strike up a conversation. Most average speakers of languages haven't the slightest idea of linguistics and proper grammatical rules and such. So your average Italian Joe would realistically only be able to communicate on a basic conversational level, but nothing deeper.
The Portuguese and Spanish speakers on the other hand would have a jolly old time, and it has nothing to do with phonetics - it has to do with speaking the same words and phrases...the very close vocabulary, syntax, grammar, etc., would make it happen easily. It has been said here many times, if an Italian says 'Voglio' and a Spanish speaker says 'Quiero' and a Portuguese speaker says 'Quero', which two do you think will understand each other? In any given sentence, the Portuguese and Spanish words almost always parallel one another - - there may be a few Italian words recognizable to the former two, but quite often there will be just as many unrecognizable Italian words. And do you think that by saying a totally unrecognizable word in Italian (with the nicest accent) to a Spanish or Portuguese speaker will make them understand it? If you answer yes to this, than you are a lot more ignorant than you sound.
I didn't even have to write any of this because the abundant empirical evidence on this subject supports my position totally. But I'm sick and tired of hearing utter nonsense from some Italians who are Spanish speaking wannabes and don't have their facts straight. This is not about which language is best, and which is worst. On the contrary. This is about telling the facts as they are, substantiated by extensive research and scholarship.
But since you persist with your rhetoric, I'll humour you.
Chi sei tu? Disse il piccolo principe, sei molto carino… ITALIAN
Quién eres tú? Dijo el pequeño príncipe, eres muy bonito... SPANISH
Quem eres tu? Disse o principe pequeno, eres muito bonito...PORT.
Buon giorno, disse la volpe. ITALIAN
Buenos días, dijo el zorro. SPANISH ('Buen día' is how it is in the story)
Bom dia, disse a raposa PORT.(all spanish speakers know what raposa is)
*the Italian would be out of the loop here for sure, because the Spanish & Portuguese speakers would both know what 'raposa' is, but not the Italian. After all, the 'Fox' is a very, very important part of the story.
I digress....
<<But in my opinion the phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian is over 95% while that between Spanish and Portuguese is probably below 60%. And so the combined strength of the 82% lexical and the high percentage phonological similarities between Spanish and Italian weakened the 89% lexical similarities between Spanish and Potuguese.">>
Marc, are you for real here? You're throwing numbers around here arbitrarily. What kind of logic is this supposed to be? Is anyone supposed to believe that Spanish and Italian are 95% phonologically similar on your say so only? Give us evidence from any scholar worth his/her salt that will substantiate this preposterous claim. Just do some research anywhere in academia and you will surely find that all of the major studies put Spanish and Portuguese as the closest romance languages in every way in terms of intelligibilty. This is not fiction, this is fact! The majority of posts in this forum by Spanish and Portuguese speakers confirm this, and the few that don't are fabrications by one or two individuals here who are pipe dreamers and out to cause discord. And you use LAA, Aldvm, Sergio and Cinderello to try and strengthen your erroneous claims?? Don't stoop that low for goodness sake. And although I can't prove it, I suspect those guys are one and the same. In fact, even as I write this I have this feeling that you are not who you say you are.
'Nessuno' in Italian is not 'Nadie' in Spanish
'Sotto' in Italian is not ' Bajo' in Spanish
'Voltarsi' in Italian is not 'Darse Vuelta' in Spanish
et., et., etc., apples are apples, and oranges are oranges
Some Italians here just want to twist and turn everything inside out to make the Italian and Spanish words appear remotely similar to one another - but all your doing is splitting hairs, and very fine ones at that. In the real world when two people are talking, they don't have the time to stop every second to check a dictionary to see if there is a cognate, alternate spelling, alternate word, etc., etc. What we are talking about here is your average Italian Joe who is walking down the street and meets a Spanish speaker, and they try to strike up a conversation. Most average speakers of languages haven't the slightest idea of linguistics and proper grammatical rules and such. So your average Italian Joe would realistically only be able to communicate on a basic conversational level, but nothing deeper.
The Portuguese and Spanish speakers on the other hand would have a jolly old time, and it has nothing to do with phonetics - it has to do with speaking the same words and phrases...the very close vocabulary, syntax, grammar, etc., would make it happen easily. It has been said here many times, if an Italian says 'Voglio' and a Spanish speaker says 'Quiero' and a Portuguese speaker says 'Quero', which two do you think will understand each other? In any given sentence, the Portuguese and Spanish words almost always parallel one another - - there may be a few Italian words recognizable to the former two, but quite often there will be just as many unrecognizable Italian words. And do you think that by saying a totally unrecognizable word in Italian (with the nicest accent) to a Spanish or Portuguese speaker will make them understand it? If you answer yes to this, than you are a lot more ignorant than you sound.
I didn't even have to write any of this because the abundant empirical evidence on this subject supports my position totally. But I'm sick and tired of hearing utter nonsense from some Italians who are Spanish speaking wannabes and don't have their facts straight. This is not about which language is best, and which is worst. On the contrary. This is about telling the facts as they are, substantiated by extensive research and scholarship.
Utilización:
Haz / Hacer una nuez de producto en la palma de la mano humedecida y aplicarla en el rostro dando un masaje delicadamente. Aclarar abundantemente con agua. Puede ser utilizado en la mañana y la noche. Sin jabón. - Uso externo -SPANISH
Utilizzazione:
Far una noce di prodotto nel palmo della mano inumidito e applicarla sul visto massaggiando delicatamente. Risolvere abbondantemente con acqua. Può essere utilizzato nel mattino e sera. Senza sapone.
-Uso esterno -ITALIAN
Utilizacção:
Fazer espuma com uma noz de produto na palma da mão umedecada e aplicarla no rostro massajando dedicadamente. Aclarar abundantemente com agua. Pode ser utilizado da manhã e ã noite. Sem sabão.
-Uso externo -PORTUGUESE
It looks to me, all three have similarities in lexicality. It just happens to be that Spanish and Italian would comprehend eachother much better in oral conversation. This competition of what Romance language is the closest to is annoying and we're ad nauseam about it.
Haz / Hacer una nuez de producto en la palma de la mano humedecida y aplicarla en el rostro dando un masaje delicadamente. Aclarar abundantemente con agua. Puede ser utilizado en la mañana y la noche. Sin jabón. - Uso externo -SPANISH
Utilizzazione:
Far una noce di prodotto nel palmo della mano inumidito e applicarla sul visto massaggiando delicatamente. Risolvere abbondantemente con acqua. Può essere utilizzato nel mattino e sera. Senza sapone.
-Uso esterno -ITALIAN
Utilizacção:
Fazer espuma com uma noz de produto na palma da mão umedecada e aplicarla no rostro massajando dedicadamente. Aclarar abundantemente com agua. Pode ser utilizado da manhã e ã noite. Sem sabão.
-Uso externo -PORTUGUESE
It looks to me, all three have similarities in lexicality. It just happens to be that Spanish and Italian would comprehend eachother much better in oral conversation. This competition of what Romance language is the closest to is annoying and we're ad nauseam about it.
Hi, I,m familiar wuth the Spanish language since I was a child. My point is when the first time I heard somebody on TV speaking in Italian, I exclaimed "Spanish" and someone corrected me no that's Italian.
But when it was the same case for Portuguese, I didn't think that it was Spanish and again somebody told me it was Portuguese. That's the time I begin to have doubt that Portuguese was not really that close as most thought. Before that I read texts written in Portuguese and my I thought it was identical to Spanish with just differences in cognate words.
When I heard a cast on a movie telling the crowd with the word "Silenzio!" I thought it was Spanish but I realized because it wasn't pronounced "silentsyo". The Spanish counterpart of it is "Silencio" and pronounced as "silensyo". The Portuguese word for it is also "Silencio" but pronounced as "silengsyu".
Conclusion: Spanish and Italian pronounciations are almost identical and a lot closer to each other than to Portuguese.
A Spanish speaker would ask an Italian speaker to make a hand gesture to make a latter's word unfamiliar to him to be understood such as "mangiare".
With the Portuguese speaker, Spansih speaker would ask the former to write down what he's talking about so that he may understand it since Portuguese sounds so apart from Spanish.
But when it was the same case for Portuguese, I didn't think that it was Spanish and again somebody told me it was Portuguese. That's the time I begin to have doubt that Portuguese was not really that close as most thought. Before that I read texts written in Portuguese and my I thought it was identical to Spanish with just differences in cognate words.
When I heard a cast on a movie telling the crowd with the word "Silenzio!" I thought it was Spanish but I realized because it wasn't pronounced "silentsyo". The Spanish counterpart of it is "Silencio" and pronounced as "silensyo". The Portuguese word for it is also "Silencio" but pronounced as "silengsyu".
Conclusion: Spanish and Italian pronounciations are almost identical and a lot closer to each other than to Portuguese.
A Spanish speaker would ask an Italian speaker to make a hand gesture to make a latter's word unfamiliar to him to be understood such as "mangiare".
With the Portuguese speaker, Spansih speaker would ask the former to write down what he's talking about so that he may understand it since Portuguese sounds so apart from Spanish.