Para Janina, oi td bem? sou Português e nunca ouvi dizer cá em Portugal que a lingua falada no Brasil é brasileiro, nós cá consideramos o português falado no Brasil,Timor,Angola,Moçambique, como sendo Português falado com outras pronúncias, do mesmo modo que há o Português das ilhas da Madeira e dos Açores.Todos nós fazemos parte da cultura lusofónica. Tenho muitos amigos brasileiros cá em Portugal, e não sei qual a razão de nos detestarem por uma coisa que aconteceu há séculos atrás
Do you like Brazilian Portuguese?
I am a portuguese-american and I had no idea that brazilians hate portugal. I am truly surprised and schocked with such displays of hatred.
Besides, a majority of brazilians carry portuguese last names which indicates that they themselves are of portuguese heritage. So, if a large majority of brazilians are of portuguese extraction why should they hate their ancestors? Are they ashamed of their ancestors? Is this self-hatred? What is this, then?
There are many brazilians living in the US and they are settling in the portuguese communities because, as many of them have expressed, they identify with the portuguese. We share many cultural traits and afinities. The portuguese and ilalians in the US have also realized that they are very compatible. Portuguese and italians get along very well. We get along very well around here. Stop the nonsense.
Many portuguese living in the US are bying vacation homes in Brazil and the brazilian telenovelas are followed here with great interest. I just don't see the point of being antogonistic.
There are differences that we must welcome, acknowledge and respect but there is no place for hatred. I truly admire Brazil and the brazilian people. No problem.
Besides, a majority of brazilians carry portuguese last names which indicates that they themselves are of portuguese heritage. So, if a large majority of brazilians are of portuguese extraction why should they hate their ancestors? Are they ashamed of their ancestors? Is this self-hatred? What is this, then?
There are many brazilians living in the US and they are settling in the portuguese communities because, as many of them have expressed, they identify with the portuguese. We share many cultural traits and afinities. The portuguese and ilalians in the US have also realized that they are very compatible. Portuguese and italians get along very well. We get along very well around here. Stop the nonsense.
Many portuguese living in the US are bying vacation homes in Brazil and the brazilian telenovelas are followed here with great interest. I just don't see the point of being antogonistic.
There are differences that we must welcome, acknowledge and respect but there is no place for hatred. I truly admire Brazil and the brazilian people. No problem.
>>....a majority of brazilians carry portuguese <<
I think many (if not all) african slaves headed to brazil were baptized with a christian (read: catholic portuguese) name so. The vast majority of the brazilian population is of mixed descent but predominantly african.
>>majority of brazilians are of portuguese extraction why should they hate their ancestors? Are they ashamed of their ancestors?<<
They're not. Their "white" component comes from recent european migration. According to brazilians thier country is 55% is "white" which is complete utter bullshit. I have from reliable sources, people that have visited the country that have no hidden agendas and hence no propensityt to lie, that it's more like 20%. Unfortunately there's institutionalized racism in all Latin American countries and the worst one of all is probably brazil. It is widely know that brazilians like to inflate the "white" figures in their census because a "non-white" is perceived to be an inferior being.
http://backintyme.com/Essay040717.htm
The Perception of “Racial” Traits
A few years ago, Eugene Robinson, a Black writer for the Washington Post, visited Brazil. An outgoing, likeable young man, he soon made friends with English-speaking Brazilians his own age. A particularly attractive young woman invited him to join her and her friends in a relaxing day on the incomparable beaches of Rio de Janeiro. Despite minor, often humorous language confusion, the day started well. Eugene was fascinated with Brazilian culture and customs and, while satisfying his curiosity about their world, his Brazilian friends asked him about life in the United States.1
The problem started when he asked them what is was like to be Black in Brazil. They tried to answer, but it soon became clear that they had no idea; their answers were based on their impressions of U.S. popular culture. Eugene explained that he already knew what it was like to be Black in the United States. He was American and Black, after all. He wanted to know about Black life in Brazil. Startled, his new friends explained that they did not personally know any Black people. Shocked, he bluntly told them that they were Black and should not deny the fact. Concerned bystanders glanced at the little group as voices were raised in mutual frustration. Finally, in desperation, Eugene extended his forearm, placed it alongside that of the gorgeous young woman who had invited him to the beach, and scolded, “Stop denying that you are Black! I am Black and you are darker than me!” As one, the Brazilians rose to their feet, collected their belongings, and left Eugene sitting all alone on one of the most beautiful beaches on earth.
The problem was more than mere language. Brazilians think of “Blacks” as the urban underclass, responsible for more crime than their numbers would predict and who have suffered White domination for so long that many are suspicious of well-meaning Whites. To some extent, this is also true in the United States. But Robinson used “Black” to mean membership in an endogamous group—a phenomenon that does not exist in Brazil. Each saw the other through a cultural filter. In Eugene’s eyes, his Brazilian friends displayed some African ancestry, just like him. Since Robinson is a member of the U.S. Black endogamous group, he incorrectly thought that his friends were also members of a Black endogamous group. From the other side, Robinson showed unmistakable middle-class education and status, just like them. Since this made them White by the Brazilian definition, they insisted that Robinson was also White.
To a historian, the interesting point is that neither side was willing to budge from its culturally learned preconceptions. To this day, the intelligent, educated journalist insists in his writings that Brazilians are in denial. We shall never know how Brazilians feel about the crazy White American who, to their minds, claimed that he was a slum-dweller, since only Robinson wrote about the event. But we can guess. As one scientist points out, “Most people believe they know ‘racial’ appearance when they see it, but arrive at nothing short of confusion when pressed to define it.”2
>>I truly admire Brazil and the brazilian people. No problem.<<
You shouldn't admire it just because they happen to speak your language and feel you share commonality because of it. I don't admire brazil at all, it has its pros and cons just like any other nation on earth. I just take the good stuff and leave the bad stuff alone. Simple as that.
I think many (if not all) african slaves headed to brazil were baptized with a christian (read: catholic portuguese) name so. The vast majority of the brazilian population is of mixed descent but predominantly african.
>>majority of brazilians are of portuguese extraction why should they hate their ancestors? Are they ashamed of their ancestors?<<
They're not. Their "white" component comes from recent european migration. According to brazilians thier country is 55% is "white" which is complete utter bullshit. I have from reliable sources, people that have visited the country that have no hidden agendas and hence no propensityt to lie, that it's more like 20%. Unfortunately there's institutionalized racism in all Latin American countries and the worst one of all is probably brazil. It is widely know that brazilians like to inflate the "white" figures in their census because a "non-white" is perceived to be an inferior being.
http://backintyme.com/Essay040717.htm
The Perception of “Racial” Traits
A few years ago, Eugene Robinson, a Black writer for the Washington Post, visited Brazil. An outgoing, likeable young man, he soon made friends with English-speaking Brazilians his own age. A particularly attractive young woman invited him to join her and her friends in a relaxing day on the incomparable beaches of Rio de Janeiro. Despite minor, often humorous language confusion, the day started well. Eugene was fascinated with Brazilian culture and customs and, while satisfying his curiosity about their world, his Brazilian friends asked him about life in the United States.1
The problem started when he asked them what is was like to be Black in Brazil. They tried to answer, but it soon became clear that they had no idea; their answers were based on their impressions of U.S. popular culture. Eugene explained that he already knew what it was like to be Black in the United States. He was American and Black, after all. He wanted to know about Black life in Brazil. Startled, his new friends explained that they did not personally know any Black people. Shocked, he bluntly told them that they were Black and should not deny the fact. Concerned bystanders glanced at the little group as voices were raised in mutual frustration. Finally, in desperation, Eugene extended his forearm, placed it alongside that of the gorgeous young woman who had invited him to the beach, and scolded, “Stop denying that you are Black! I am Black and you are darker than me!” As one, the Brazilians rose to their feet, collected their belongings, and left Eugene sitting all alone on one of the most beautiful beaches on earth.
The problem was more than mere language. Brazilians think of “Blacks” as the urban underclass, responsible for more crime than their numbers would predict and who have suffered White domination for so long that many are suspicious of well-meaning Whites. To some extent, this is also true in the United States. But Robinson used “Black” to mean membership in an endogamous group—a phenomenon that does not exist in Brazil. Each saw the other through a cultural filter. In Eugene’s eyes, his Brazilian friends displayed some African ancestry, just like him. Since Robinson is a member of the U.S. Black endogamous group, he incorrectly thought that his friends were also members of a Black endogamous group. From the other side, Robinson showed unmistakable middle-class education and status, just like them. Since this made them White by the Brazilian definition, they insisted that Robinson was also White.
To a historian, the interesting point is that neither side was willing to budge from its culturally learned preconceptions. To this day, the intelligent, educated journalist insists in his writings that Brazilians are in denial. We shall never know how Brazilians feel about the crazy White American who, to their minds, claimed that he was a slum-dweller, since only Robinson wrote about the event. But we can guess. As one scientist points out, “Most people believe they know ‘racial’ appearance when they see it, but arrive at nothing short of confusion when pressed to define it.”2
>>I truly admire Brazil and the brazilian people. No problem.<<
You shouldn't admire it just because they happen to speak your language and feel you share commonality because of it. I don't admire brazil at all, it has its pros and cons just like any other nation on earth. I just take the good stuff and leave the bad stuff alone. Simple as that.
>>I really find many of the Brazilian posters here racist. This is ridiculous. Vanessa why should you DISLIKE Portugal? You don't have to like something, no one is asking you to. What happened to being neutral? Why is it that if you don't like something, you dislike it?<<
They have an inferiority complex and try to compensate that gnawing feeling that eats at them by acting all superior in hope that it will eventually come to true. Kinda sad when you think about it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/721432.stm
Brazil: Country of the future?
Generations of Brazilians have long been taught that they lived in "the country of the future".
With its vast territory, natural resources and economic potential, its people were led to believe that Brazil had a guaranteed place as one of the world's leading countries.
But as the country celebrates 500 years since the arrival of European explorers, the promise of a bright future has not come true for the majority of its population.
A great number suffer daily from tremendous inequality, widespread corruption and growing violence.
Love it or leave it
For a good part of the 20th century, Brazil was one of the fastest-growing countries in the world.
In the first decades of the century, migrants from places as varied as Japan and Italy were attracted by the beginnings of national industrialisation.
In the 1950s their sons and daughters believed the future had indeed arrived as Brazil started to receive massive foreign investments and several multinationals set up offices in the country.
The dream faded with political instability and economic failures.
In the 1970s, the military dictatorship tried to renew hope by using its propaganda machine, manipulating the good times of the "economic miracle" and even by pointing to the success of the national football team.
All to show how great Brazil was.
Children were taught in school to think that Brazil was "big" - the best in the world - and that one should either "love it or leave it".
Most people believed it and the country became a place of superlatives.
Suddenly, everyone was proud to say that we had such things as the longest bridge and the biggest hydroelectric power station in the world.
People would tell jokes saying that even God was Brazilian.
Once again, failure followed the "miracle" and the economy simply did not grow at all in the 1980s - the lost decade.
Social problems
All these cycles of economic growth have had an impact on the country.
From a totally rural society, Brazil has grown to be the 10th largest global economy.
Yet the country has failed to redistribute its wealth among its160 million people - one-third of Latin America's entire population.
In fact, Brazil is one of the most unequal countries in the world.
About 50 million Brazilians are poor, 32 million do not have access to clean water and 24 million are illiterate.
Many have to live on a mere $77 per month, the country's minimum wage.
Living in huge "favelas" or shantytowns, the poor in fact have limited access to education, the job market and the health system.
Violence
One of the results of the social exclusion has been an increase in violence.
In 1997, 8,092 people were murdered in the city of Sao Paulo alone - an average of one person almost every hour.
Some people say the gap between the rich and the poor is widening even though the country is now back to a certain degree of economical stability.
Inflation is under control and most analysts predict the country's economy will grow between 3% and 4% this year.
But nobody knows if this growth can be maintained long enough to guarantee its people the promised bright future.
They have an inferiority complex and try to compensate that gnawing feeling that eats at them by acting all superior in hope that it will eventually come to true. Kinda sad when you think about it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/721432.stm
Brazil: Country of the future?
Generations of Brazilians have long been taught that they lived in "the country of the future".
With its vast territory, natural resources and economic potential, its people were led to believe that Brazil had a guaranteed place as one of the world's leading countries.
But as the country celebrates 500 years since the arrival of European explorers, the promise of a bright future has not come true for the majority of its population.
A great number suffer daily from tremendous inequality, widespread corruption and growing violence.
Love it or leave it
For a good part of the 20th century, Brazil was one of the fastest-growing countries in the world.
In the first decades of the century, migrants from places as varied as Japan and Italy were attracted by the beginnings of national industrialisation.
In the 1950s their sons and daughters believed the future had indeed arrived as Brazil started to receive massive foreign investments and several multinationals set up offices in the country.
The dream faded with political instability and economic failures.
In the 1970s, the military dictatorship tried to renew hope by using its propaganda machine, manipulating the good times of the "economic miracle" and even by pointing to the success of the national football team.
All to show how great Brazil was.
Children were taught in school to think that Brazil was "big" - the best in the world - and that one should either "love it or leave it".
Most people believed it and the country became a place of superlatives.
Suddenly, everyone was proud to say that we had such things as the longest bridge and the biggest hydroelectric power station in the world.
People would tell jokes saying that even God was Brazilian.
Once again, failure followed the "miracle" and the economy simply did not grow at all in the 1980s - the lost decade.
Social problems
All these cycles of economic growth have had an impact on the country.
From a totally rural society, Brazil has grown to be the 10th largest global economy.
Yet the country has failed to redistribute its wealth among its160 million people - one-third of Latin America's entire population.
In fact, Brazil is one of the most unequal countries in the world.
About 50 million Brazilians are poor, 32 million do not have access to clean water and 24 million are illiterate.
Many have to live on a mere $77 per month, the country's minimum wage.
Living in huge "favelas" or shantytowns, the poor in fact have limited access to education, the job market and the health system.
Violence
One of the results of the social exclusion has been an increase in violence.
In 1997, 8,092 people were murdered in the city of Sao Paulo alone - an average of one person almost every hour.
Some people say the gap between the rich and the poor is widening even though the country is now back to a certain degree of economical stability.
Inflation is under control and most analysts predict the country's economy will grow between 3% and 4% this year.
But nobody knows if this growth can be maintained long enough to guarantee its people the promised bright future.
>>I truly admire Brazil and the brazilian people. No problem.<<
««You shouldn't admire it just because they happen to speak your language and feel you share commonality because of it. I don't admire brazil at all, it has its pros and cons just like any other nation on earth. I just take the good stuff and leave the bad stuff alone. Simple as that. »»
I happen to speak other languages besides portuguese. I admire brazilian people. I believe that most brazilians have nothing to do with the greed and violence that took over their country. Most brazilians are victims of a bad situation. I admire them because most of them are good at heart and mean well. Brazilains, black, white or mixed, are wonderful people.
If Republicans in the USA had their way, the USA would look just like Brazil. Look at New Orleans! If we stay the course it will happen sooner than latter.
««You shouldn't admire it just because they happen to speak your language and feel you share commonality because of it. I don't admire brazil at all, it has its pros and cons just like any other nation on earth. I just take the good stuff and leave the bad stuff alone. Simple as that. »»
I happen to speak other languages besides portuguese. I admire brazilian people. I believe that most brazilians have nothing to do with the greed and violence that took over their country. Most brazilians are victims of a bad situation. I admire them because most of them are good at heart and mean well. Brazilains, black, white or mixed, are wonderful people.
If Republicans in the USA had their way, the USA would look just like Brazil. Look at New Orleans! If we stay the course it will happen sooner than latter.
“Nós, no Brasil, presos à gramática "portuguesa", somos vítimas de uma desintegração dolorosa de nós mesmos. [...]
A língua brasileira, já ninguém discute isso, diverge da portuguesa; é esta, entretanto, que a escola continua a ensinar ao brasileiro”. (Mário Marroquim, 1931: 169-171)
Mas o grande momento de constituição de uma língua "brasileira" foi o século XVIII, quando se explorou ouro em Minas Gerais. "Lá surgiu a primeira célula do português brasileiro", diz Marlos de Barros Pessoa, da Universidade Federal de Pernambuco. "A riqueza atraiu gente de toda parte -- portugueses, bandeirantes paulistas, escravos que saíam de moinhos de cana e nordestinos." Ali, a língua começou a se uniformizar e a exportar traços comuns para o Brasil inteiro pelas rotas comerciais que a exploração do ouro criou. A lei da evolução, de Darwin, estabelece que duas populações de uma espécie, se isoladas geograficamente, separam-se em duas espécies. A regra vale para a Lingüística. "Está em gestação uma nova língua:"o brasileiro", afirma Ataliba de Castilho. Há quem seja ainda mais assertivo. "Não tenho dúvida de que falamos brasileiro, e não português", diz Kanavillil Rajagopalan, especialista em Política Lingüística da Unicamp. "Digo mais: as diferenças entre o português e o brasileiro são maiores do que as existentes entre o hindi, um idioma indiano, e o hurdu, falado no Paquistão, duas línguas aceitas como distintas." Kanavillil nasceu na Índia e domina os dois idiomas.
A língua brasileira, já ninguém discute isso, diverge da portuguesa; é esta, entretanto, que a escola continua a ensinar ao brasileiro”. (Mário Marroquim, 1931: 169-171)
Mas o grande momento de constituição de uma língua "brasileira" foi o século XVIII, quando se explorou ouro em Minas Gerais. "Lá surgiu a primeira célula do português brasileiro", diz Marlos de Barros Pessoa, da Universidade Federal de Pernambuco. "A riqueza atraiu gente de toda parte -- portugueses, bandeirantes paulistas, escravos que saíam de moinhos de cana e nordestinos." Ali, a língua começou a se uniformizar e a exportar traços comuns para o Brasil inteiro pelas rotas comerciais que a exploração do ouro criou. A lei da evolução, de Darwin, estabelece que duas populações de uma espécie, se isoladas geograficamente, separam-se em duas espécies. A regra vale para a Lingüística. "Está em gestação uma nova língua:"o brasileiro", afirma Ataliba de Castilho. Há quem seja ainda mais assertivo. "Não tenho dúvida de que falamos brasileiro, e não português", diz Kanavillil Rajagopalan, especialista em Política Lingüística da Unicamp. "Digo mais: as diferenças entre o português e o brasileiro são maiores do que as existentes entre o hindi, um idioma indiano, e o hurdu, falado no Paquistão, duas línguas aceitas como distintas." Kanavillil nasceu na Índia e domina os dois idiomas.
Besides, a majority of brazilians carry portuguese last names which indicates that they themselves are of portuguese heritage. /mariana/
Yes, and many African Americans carry British last names but many of them have no British blood at all.
Slaves are heritage to you?
That's strange.
Brazil can only be happy it hasn't passed throu bloody wars Portugal had in its African collonies like Guine Bisao, Angola and Mozambique (Portuguese people kept on killing Africans until 1975...Come on, you had been killing Africans untill 1975 and then you think St. Mary of Fátima will forgive you...So miserable...)
Yes, and many African Americans carry British last names but many of them have no British blood at all.
Slaves are heritage to you?
That's strange.
Brazil can only be happy it hasn't passed throu bloody wars Portugal had in its African collonies like Guine Bisao, Angola and Mozambique (Portuguese people kept on killing Africans until 1975...Come on, you had been killing Africans untill 1975 and then you think St. Mary of Fátima will forgive you...So miserable...)
''A separação estrutural, entre a língua de Portugal e do Brasil é um fenómeno lento, e de águas profundas, que é fácil, e, a muitos, desejável não observar. ''
(Ivo Castro 2001; Universidade de Lisboa).
read here:
http://www.prohpor.ufba.br/propalado.html
(Ivo Castro 2001; Universidade de Lisboa).
read here:
http://www.prohpor.ufba.br/propalado.html
Pois pois. É uma pena esses textos que defendem a independência linguística do Brasil estarem escritos em Português. Porque será?
Já agora : tenho lido aqui e ali que Hindi e Urdu são de facto a mesma língua separada artificialmente por circunstâncias de ordem política,tal como sucede entre Sérvio e Croata, Bahasa da Indonésia e da Malásia, e Catalão e Valenciano.
Kwanzaa4ever : em Portugal, colonialismo e escravatura são conceitos que se estudam nas aulas de História como coisas passadas, próprios de uma mentalidade estranha. Esse tipo de mentalidade revanchista não serve a ninguém, para a frente é que é caminho.
(Mas já que o assunto veio à baila, não se esqueça de como começou a guerra em Angola, no início de 1961 : negros da UPA a matarem indiscriminadamente brancos e outros negros)
Já agora : tenho lido aqui e ali que Hindi e Urdu são de facto a mesma língua separada artificialmente por circunstâncias de ordem política,tal como sucede entre Sérvio e Croata, Bahasa da Indonésia e da Malásia, e Catalão e Valenciano.
Kwanzaa4ever : em Portugal, colonialismo e escravatura são conceitos que se estudam nas aulas de História como coisas passadas, próprios de uma mentalidade estranha. Esse tipo de mentalidade revanchista não serve a ninguém, para a frente é que é caminho.
(Mas já que o assunto veio à baila, não se esqueça de como começou a guerra em Angola, no início de 1961 : negros da UPA a matarem indiscriminadamente brancos e outros negros)
++Brazil can only be happy it hasn't passed throu bloody wars Portugal had in its African collonies like Guine Bisao, Angola and Mozambique (Portuguese people kept on killing Africans until 1975...Come on, you had been killing Africans untill 1975 and then you think St. Mary of Fátima will forgive you...So miserable...) +++
I never killed anyone and I don't believe in Fatima. I understand that many african brazilians have portuguese last names. Portuguese last names are very common in Brazil. It is a fact. Is there a connection?
I never killed anyone and I don't believe in Fatima. I understand that many african brazilians have portuguese last names. Portuguese last names are very common in Brazil. It is a fact. Is there a connection?
>> I admire them because most of them are good at heart and mean well. Brazilains, black, white or mixed, are wonderful people. <<
Well you could the same thing about any other nationality. I haven't noticed anything inherently unique or special about brazilians so I can't say that I share your admiration however well intentioned it might be.
>>If Republicans in the USA had their way, the USA would look just like Brazil. Look at New Orleans! If we stay the course it will happen sooner than latter.<<
I don't see how this is relevant.
Well you could the same thing about any other nationality. I haven't noticed anything inherently unique or special about brazilians so I can't say that I share your admiration however well intentioned it might be.
>>If Republicans in the USA had their way, the USA would look just like Brazil. Look at New Orleans! If we stay the course it will happen sooner than latter.<<
I don't see how this is relevant.
Kwanzaa4ever wrote:
>>>Besides, a majority of brazilians carry portuguese last names which indicates that they themselves are of portuguese heritage. /mariana/
Yes, and many African Americans carry British last names but many of them have no British blood at all.
Slaves are heritage to you?
That's strange. <<<
Unlike the Afro Americans the Afro Brazilians mixed with the European and Indian population. Many Brazilians are at the same time descendent of slaves and masters as strange as it may sound.
>>>Brazil can only be happy it hasn't passed throu bloody wars Portugal had in its African collonies like Guine Bisao, Angola and Mozambique (Portuguese people kept on killing Africans until 1975...Come on, you had been killing Africans untill 1975 and then you think St. Mary of Fátima will forgive you...So miserable...)<<<
And armed Africans were not killing Portuguese? and their own African people?
Brazil can be happy that before and after the decolonization they were not used by the interest of different foreign factions, and used in many years of civil war in a very convenient stage for the cold war and other foreign political interests.
“No one knows how many people have died in and around this central Angolan town, where the World Food Programme started distributing emergency rations in the past week.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2019186.stm
“I am appalled to witness the outright disregard for such a desperate situation. The world is knowingly allowing Angolans to die of starvation, their number already totaling in the thousands.”
“We are seeing incredible malnutrition among children, no education for children, no immunizations.... It’s as if these folks have been living their lives in another century, removed from everything that is our reality for the past decade.”
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun2002/ango-j26.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/01/99/angola/263393.stm
“Between 1977 and 1992 up to a million Mozambicans died from fighting and famine in a war that ruined the economy and much of the countryside. The country has been left with a legacy of landmines and amputees”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/country_profiles/1063120.stm
Who do you blame for this??
>>>Besides, a majority of brazilians carry portuguese last names which indicates that they themselves are of portuguese heritage. /mariana/
Yes, and many African Americans carry British last names but many of them have no British blood at all.
Slaves are heritage to you?
That's strange. <<<
Unlike the Afro Americans the Afro Brazilians mixed with the European and Indian population. Many Brazilians are at the same time descendent of slaves and masters as strange as it may sound.
>>>Brazil can only be happy it hasn't passed throu bloody wars Portugal had in its African collonies like Guine Bisao, Angola and Mozambique (Portuguese people kept on killing Africans until 1975...Come on, you had been killing Africans untill 1975 and then you think St. Mary of Fátima will forgive you...So miserable...)<<<
And armed Africans were not killing Portuguese? and their own African people?
Brazil can be happy that before and after the decolonization they were not used by the interest of different foreign factions, and used in many years of civil war in a very convenient stage for the cold war and other foreign political interests.
“No one knows how many people have died in and around this central Angolan town, where the World Food Programme started distributing emergency rations in the past week.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2019186.stm
“I am appalled to witness the outright disregard for such a desperate situation. The world is knowingly allowing Angolans to die of starvation, their number already totaling in the thousands.”
“We are seeing incredible malnutrition among children, no education for children, no immunizations.... It’s as if these folks have been living their lives in another century, removed from everything that is our reality for the past decade.”
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jun2002/ango-j26.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/01/99/angola/263393.stm
“Between 1977 and 1992 up to a million Mozambicans died from fighting and famine in a war that ruined the economy and much of the countryside. The country has been left with a legacy of landmines and amputees”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/country_profiles/1063120.stm
Who do you blame for this??
Vanessa Leonini wrote:
>>>I am Italobrazilian and I don't like Portugal.<<<
Why did you go to Portugal in first place? I suppose you have to know Portugal to say this.
>>>There are so many Americans with no British blood at all, and there are som many us Brazilians with no Portuguese blood at all.<<<
What a relief to know this …..You classify Brazilians according to the blood? Is there some Brazilians better than others according to the blood and name?
>>>Why should Italoamericans like UK, or why should Italobrazilians like Portugal?
What has Portugal to do with it? It is the Portuguese of Brazil you mock in Brazil, it is them you call dumb.
No you don’t have to like Portugal as Portugal does not have to like people like you. But you should respect those Brazilians that had Portuguese blood and culture. They opened the doors of their country to thousands of poor immigrants giving them the opportunity to start their lives in a new and rich land.
These people, of Portuguese blood, gave to the immigrants work, lands, food and shelter that provided a better future for families like yours.
It is them you disrespect not the Portuguese from Portugal, it is their culture and traditions you disrespect.
A shame you don’t learn at school what was the reason that made the families of people like you leave their homeland to a far away country.
Unlike the Brazilians the North Americans teach their students to understand the factors that caused the immigration and do not make it look “pinky and perfumed “. For instance Italian immigration was not like what you learn in the soap operas:
“The [Italian]immigrant at this time left one thing behind and that was poverty. At home there was unemployment, and underemployment, high mortality, little or no medical care, little or no schooling, poor housing, semi-starvation, rigid class structure, and exploitation. (Mangione,p.25.)[…]
“The year 1871 is considered a starting point for mass migration from southern Italy. In this year, Italy had become a unified nation with a democratic constitution, however, the south had not reaped any economic benefit from this development. Conditions had actually gotten worse. Taxes increased and yet, nothing had been done to stimulate the stagnant economy of the south. The land was not looked after properly. It was not irrigated, trees were not planted to stop erosion and floods, and little was done to improve the quality of the soil. As the land grew poorer so did the peasants. Disease took is toll. Epidemics of cholera and malaria spurred thousands of southern Italians into leaving the country. Along with disease came a mysterious parasite that destroyed most of the grapevines in southern Italy. As a result, thousands of farmers found themselves without the means to make a living. Traditionally, the south of Italy had always been worse off than central and northern Italy. By the turn of the century it was barely possible to subsist. Most of the land was owned by a few wealthy nobles who lived in the north and allowed overseers to run their estates. In many townships water was a luxury. Roads and streets were impassable in bad weather.[…]”
http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1999/3/99.03.06.x.html
>>>but Portugal is seen as a poor, backward country, where some ugly dialect is Spoken, it's not ''in vogue''.<<<
Shame quality education is not “in vogue”. I suppose Brazil is also not in Vogue that is why many people like you prefer to call themselves Italo or something else according to the origin of their last name.
>>>I am Italobrazilian and I don't like Portugal.<<<
Why did you go to Portugal in first place? I suppose you have to know Portugal to say this.
>>>There are so many Americans with no British blood at all, and there are som many us Brazilians with no Portuguese blood at all.<<<
What a relief to know this …..You classify Brazilians according to the blood? Is there some Brazilians better than others according to the blood and name?
>>>Why should Italoamericans like UK, or why should Italobrazilians like Portugal?
What has Portugal to do with it? It is the Portuguese of Brazil you mock in Brazil, it is them you call dumb.
No you don’t have to like Portugal as Portugal does not have to like people like you. But you should respect those Brazilians that had Portuguese blood and culture. They opened the doors of their country to thousands of poor immigrants giving them the opportunity to start their lives in a new and rich land.
These people, of Portuguese blood, gave to the immigrants work, lands, food and shelter that provided a better future for families like yours.
It is them you disrespect not the Portuguese from Portugal, it is their culture and traditions you disrespect.
A shame you don’t learn at school what was the reason that made the families of people like you leave their homeland to a far away country.
Unlike the Brazilians the North Americans teach their students to understand the factors that caused the immigration and do not make it look “pinky and perfumed “. For instance Italian immigration was not like what you learn in the soap operas:
“The [Italian]immigrant at this time left one thing behind and that was poverty. At home there was unemployment, and underemployment, high mortality, little or no medical care, little or no schooling, poor housing, semi-starvation, rigid class structure, and exploitation. (Mangione,p.25.)[…]
“The year 1871 is considered a starting point for mass migration from southern Italy. In this year, Italy had become a unified nation with a democratic constitution, however, the south had not reaped any economic benefit from this development. Conditions had actually gotten worse. Taxes increased and yet, nothing had been done to stimulate the stagnant economy of the south. The land was not looked after properly. It was not irrigated, trees were not planted to stop erosion and floods, and little was done to improve the quality of the soil. As the land grew poorer so did the peasants. Disease took is toll. Epidemics of cholera and malaria spurred thousands of southern Italians into leaving the country. Along with disease came a mysterious parasite that destroyed most of the grapevines in southern Italy. As a result, thousands of farmers found themselves without the means to make a living. Traditionally, the south of Italy had always been worse off than central and northern Italy. By the turn of the century it was barely possible to subsist. Most of the land was owned by a few wealthy nobles who lived in the north and allowed overseers to run their estates. In many townships water was a luxury. Roads and streets were impassable in bad weather.[…]”
http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1999/3/99.03.06.x.html
>>>but Portugal is seen as a poor, backward country, where some ugly dialect is Spoken, it's not ''in vogue''.<<<
Shame quality education is not “in vogue”. I suppose Brazil is also not in Vogue that is why many people like you prefer to call themselves Italo or something else according to the origin of their last name.
Mariana wrote:
>>>I admire brazilian people. I believe that most brazilians have nothing to do with the greed and violence that took over their country. Most brazilians are victims of a bad situation. <<<
This is something I do not agree at all. Victims have everything to do with it , they would not be called victims if they had nothing to do with it.
This is exactly the mentality of the Brazilians, the victim complex. If they are victims they do not have responsibilities, they do not change what is wrong because they always have someone else to put the blames on. If they are not responsible who is it then?
Brazilians are the only ones responsible, the ones to blame for their own problems and the only ones responsible for the solution of their problems.
Who caused the “bad situation”? who allows the bad situation?
I do not believe in victims, only on people who refuse to be victims whenever they face a “bad situation”.
Greed and violence do not take over, it is greedy and violent Brazilians who take over, because most Brazilians think that they are victims and allow it to happen. It is a symbiotic relationship, one does not exit without the other.
Think you are a victim and you will always be one, better blame the Portuguese make them responsible, not your government or your people these are the victims.
.............................................
"If it's never our fault, we can't take responsibility for it. If we can't take responsibility for it, we'll always be its victim."
~Richard Bach
>>>I admire brazilian people. I believe that most brazilians have nothing to do with the greed and violence that took over their country. Most brazilians are victims of a bad situation. <<<
This is something I do not agree at all. Victims have everything to do with it , they would not be called victims if they had nothing to do with it.
This is exactly the mentality of the Brazilians, the victim complex. If they are victims they do not have responsibilities, they do not change what is wrong because they always have someone else to put the blames on. If they are not responsible who is it then?
Brazilians are the only ones responsible, the ones to blame for their own problems and the only ones responsible for the solution of their problems.
Who caused the “bad situation”? who allows the bad situation?
I do not believe in victims, only on people who refuse to be victims whenever they face a “bad situation”.
Greed and violence do not take over, it is greedy and violent Brazilians who take over, because most Brazilians think that they are victims and allow it to happen. It is a symbiotic relationship, one does not exit without the other.
Think you are a victim and you will always be one, better blame the Portuguese make them responsible, not your government or your people these are the victims.
.............................................
"If it's never our fault, we can't take responsibility for it. If we can't take responsibility for it, we'll always be its victim."
~Richard Bach
amendment:
Where it reads,
"one does not exit without the other"
read,
"one does not exist without the other"
Where it reads,
"one does not exit without the other"
read,
"one does not exist without the other"