And i like portuguese, from any contry.....
Do you like Brazilian Portuguese?
JGreco wrote:
>>>I do not agree with your statement at all. I have been to both countries and to me and to other people I know that are non-Portuguese but native Romance language speakers the accent that is more understandable is the accents around Brasilia, Florianopolis, and a few say educated Sao Paulo speech is the most understandable.<<<
You mean that in Italy you just have to speak Portuguese with a Brazilian accent and you are understood? You need to learn Italian to be understood in case you do not know. People are not going to understand you just because Portuguese is another romance language, some vocabulary can be understood but not enough for you to have a conversation or to go around talking Portuguese expecting that people understand you because of the Brazilian accent. If you live or work with Italians or have Italian friends that is another case because both Portuguese speaker and Italian speaker learn each other’s language regardless if it is Eu or Bz Portuguese. You see that for instance in Paris or in London, but in Italy it is you who has to learn Italian. But still I would like to hear an Italian opinion it is them who have to say if anyone in Italy can understand or not Portuguese.
>>>Ep can sound really muffled and in many ways has the same unintelligability as spoken French. I also failed to mention that the most beutiful and one of the most intelligable accents I heard was educated Cape Verdean speech (not krioulo). I think the music of Cesaria Evora can show you the beauty of their speech patterns on those islands.<<<
In Portugal some people say that Brazilian reminds African Portuguese, same rhythm. And French is not unintelligible if you learn the language.I do not know how you people think you can understand and be understood in another romance language without really learning the language.
>>> On the otherhand, I still have difficulties understanding Algarvan and Azorian and I do not think I will never clearly be able to understand them.<<<
Some Portuguese may say the same.
>>>I do not agree with your statement at all. I have been to both countries and to me and to other people I know that are non-Portuguese but native Romance language speakers the accent that is more understandable is the accents around Brasilia, Florianopolis, and a few say educated Sao Paulo speech is the most understandable.<<<
You mean that in Italy you just have to speak Portuguese with a Brazilian accent and you are understood? You need to learn Italian to be understood in case you do not know. People are not going to understand you just because Portuguese is another romance language, some vocabulary can be understood but not enough for you to have a conversation or to go around talking Portuguese expecting that people understand you because of the Brazilian accent. If you live or work with Italians or have Italian friends that is another case because both Portuguese speaker and Italian speaker learn each other’s language regardless if it is Eu or Bz Portuguese. You see that for instance in Paris or in London, but in Italy it is you who has to learn Italian. But still I would like to hear an Italian opinion it is them who have to say if anyone in Italy can understand or not Portuguese.
>>>Ep can sound really muffled and in many ways has the same unintelligability as spoken French. I also failed to mention that the most beutiful and one of the most intelligable accents I heard was educated Cape Verdean speech (not krioulo). I think the music of Cesaria Evora can show you the beauty of their speech patterns on those islands.<<<
In Portugal some people say that Brazilian reminds African Portuguese, same rhythm. And French is not unintelligible if you learn the language.I do not know how you people think you can understand and be understood in another romance language without really learning the language.
>>> On the otherhand, I still have difficulties understanding Algarvan and Azorian and I do not think I will never clearly be able to understand them.<<<
Some Portuguese may say the same.
Mariana wrote:
>>>We don't know much about how languages evolve. What we know is that languages evolve and, as they evolve, they become more simplified.<<<
I think we learn about Sound Change, Palatalization, Assimilation, Metathesis ….;o)
If languages just went simplifying we would all be speaking with hand signs.
Some times we get things like this: Geolho same as Joelho. ;o)
>>>Apparently EP was once spoken with open vowels. Presently EP speakers muffle or skip most vowels. Are EP speakers simplifying the spoken language? Probably. They are doing just that with the written language. An example is how EP is communicated by e-text.<<<
Latin has many vowels.;O)
They would write as they speak but with no rules and the accent is something difficult to put on paper in the XIV century.
I find funny to see how some Portuguese names evolved.
http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/portuguese.htm
http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/portuguese-data.htm
>>>Also, remember that the difficulty most Brazilians have is not with face to face communication with EP speakers. Their complain is more about not understanding EP though the media (radio, televison and film).
I truly believe that Brazilians have dificulty understanding spoken EP when it is presented to them for the first time through the media. I believe that it can be a traumatic experience to listen to a form of your own language and not being able to understand it.<<<
Not really, they can not complain about what they do not hear they do not watch Eu.Portuguese spoken tv programs (not dubbed).
And really you have to go to Brazil to find out if this is true, and I can tell you any Brazilian can understand Eu Portuguese (standard) if you go to Brazil. In Portugal sometimes you have the impression that there is one Brazilian for every ten Portuguese, they are everywhere it is the biggest immigrant community in Portugal. Some times I see Brazilian parents that have children with Portuguese accent. So what is true or not is very easy to find out.
>>>We don't know much about how languages evolve. What we know is that languages evolve and, as they evolve, they become more simplified.<<<
I think we learn about Sound Change, Palatalization, Assimilation, Metathesis ….;o)
If languages just went simplifying we would all be speaking with hand signs.
Some times we get things like this: Geolho same as Joelho. ;o)
>>>Apparently EP was once spoken with open vowels. Presently EP speakers muffle or skip most vowels. Are EP speakers simplifying the spoken language? Probably. They are doing just that with the written language. An example is how EP is communicated by e-text.<<<
Latin has many vowels.;O)
They would write as they speak but with no rules and the accent is something difficult to put on paper in the XIV century.
I find funny to see how some Portuguese names evolved.
http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/portuguese.htm
http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/portuguese-data.htm
>>>Also, remember that the difficulty most Brazilians have is not with face to face communication with EP speakers. Their complain is more about not understanding EP though the media (radio, televison and film).
I truly believe that Brazilians have dificulty understanding spoken EP when it is presented to them for the first time through the media. I believe that it can be a traumatic experience to listen to a form of your own language and not being able to understand it.<<<
Not really, they can not complain about what they do not hear they do not watch Eu.Portuguese spoken tv programs (not dubbed).
And really you have to go to Brazil to find out if this is true, and I can tell you any Brazilian can understand Eu Portuguese (standard) if you go to Brazil. In Portugal sometimes you have the impression that there is one Brazilian for every ten Portuguese, they are everywhere it is the biggest immigrant community in Portugal. Some times I see Brazilian parents that have children with Portuguese accent. So what is true or not is very easy to find out.
As we know, nowadays American English is more used than the British one, for example in the airport you will see more often the term "cart" instead of "trolley", the term "baggage" instead of "luggage" etc. On the other hand I would say that the Continental Spanish is more used than the Latin American one. I'm currious and would like to know if in the international affairs Brazilain Portuguese is more used than the Continental one?
Thanks in advance
Thanks in advance
You mean on the airport?
Never noticed, on the airport everything is in English.
Elsewhere everything is in the local native language, the international language used is English.
Never noticed, on the airport everything is in English.
Elsewhere everything is in the local native language, the international language used is English.
Yeah on the airport, sorry my English isn't very good, I'm trying.
"the international language used is English." the international language used in American English, American terms are used more often than British ones, I could even say British terms aren't used at all in the international communication
"the international language used is English." the international language used in American English, American terms are used more often than British ones, I could even say British terms aren't used at all in the international communication
In the EU people prefer what is European so you will see Standard EuPortuguese, but the vocabulary used is the same as standard BrPortuguese so it works well for all the Portuguese speakers whatever is their country.
In Latin America most probably standard BrPortuguese.
(in Portuguese sometimes it is not what it is prefered but who wrote it if a Brazilian or a Portuguese). Just do not forget there are also African countries that speak Portuguese.
In Latin America most probably standard BrPortuguese.
(in Portuguese sometimes it is not what it is prefered but who wrote it if a Brazilian or a Portuguese). Just do not forget there are also African countries that speak Portuguese.
Aison,
»»they can not complain about what they do not hear they do not watch Eu.Portuguese spoken tv programs »»
Who are "they"
I was careful distinguishing between Brazilians who understand EP and Brazilians who don´t because they don´t want to.
WHY SHOULd "THEY "? Why should they WATCH EP TV? What is on EP TV that should interest most Brazilians?
Brazilians WHO are not interested in EP have the right not to be interested. It is their choice. Their lives do not depend on EP Portuguese. They don´t have the motivation.
I believe that we, EP speackers, should not concern ourselves with their attitude because our lives do not depend on them either.
EP is beautiful. We EP speakers love our Portuguese. Yet, we do not have the right to impose it on others. That would make us ethnocentric which means someone who believes that his/her way is the BEST way.
We EP speakers should be very happy with the fact that we can understand most BP speakers and that most BP speakers can understand us. That should be enough.
The age of empire is long gone gone Alison. Sorry if I hurt your feelings...
»»they can not complain about what they do not hear they do not watch Eu.Portuguese spoken tv programs »»
Who are "they"
I was careful distinguishing between Brazilians who understand EP and Brazilians who don´t because they don´t want to.
WHY SHOULd "THEY "? Why should they WATCH EP TV? What is on EP TV that should interest most Brazilians?
Brazilians WHO are not interested in EP have the right not to be interested. It is their choice. Their lives do not depend on EP Portuguese. They don´t have the motivation.
I believe that we, EP speackers, should not concern ourselves with their attitude because our lives do not depend on them either.
EP is beautiful. We EP speakers love our Portuguese. Yet, we do not have the right to impose it on others. That would make us ethnocentric which means someone who believes that his/her way is the BEST way.
We EP speakers should be very happy with the fact that we can understand most BP speakers and that most BP speakers can understand us. That should be enough.
The age of empire is long gone gone Alison. Sorry if I hurt your feelings...
Do you know any "anedota de portugues"
Do you know any "anedota de brasileiro?
Just curious to know waht is it all about
Do you know any "anedota de brasileiro?
Just curious to know waht is it all about
>>>Who are "they"<<<
Those who are complaining.
Mariana wrote:
>>>Also, remember that the difficulty most Brazilians have is not with face to face communication with EP speakers. Their complain is more about not understanding EP though the media (radio, televison and film). <<<
>>>WHY SHOULd "THEY "? Why should they WATCH EP TV? What is on EP TV that should interest most Brazilians? <<<
So what is the complaining about? Can you explain better?
Those who are complaining.
Mariana wrote:
>>>Also, remember that the difficulty most Brazilians have is not with face to face communication with EP speakers. Their complain is more about not understanding EP though the media (radio, televison and film). <<<
>>>WHY SHOULd "THEY "? Why should they WATCH EP TV? What is on EP TV that should interest most Brazilians? <<<
So what is the complaining about? Can you explain better?
Godot wrote:
>>>Do you know any "anedota de portugues"
Do you know any "anedota de brasileiro?
Just curious to know waht is it all about <<<
The same jokes Brazilians tell about Portuguese, Portuguese tell about Brazilians. We all laugh about each other, some are really funny, some are stupid.
>>>Do you know any "anedota de portugues"
Do you know any "anedota de brasileiro?
Just curious to know waht is it all about <<<
The same jokes Brazilians tell about Portuguese, Portuguese tell about Brazilians. We all laugh about each other, some are really funny, some are stupid.
Larissa,
»»would like to know if in the international affairs Brazilain Portuguese is more used than the Continental one»»
Do you mean "outside the Portuguese speaking countries?"
Well, although Portuguese is a world language there is not a dominant variety of Portuguese for "international affairs" that I am aware of. I know of instances relating to international affairs (conferences) where Brazilians have rejected EP speakerds translators and demanded BP speakers translators.
Yet, I have found that anything goes as far as Portuguese being represented internationally.
Regarding the Portuguese speaking countries, I have visited a few and the signes there often reflect their own variety of Portuguese.
In Angola I found a sign saying "É priobido cagar na praia"
The word "cagar" is considered very "rude and crude" in EP Portuguese. Yet it was the word of choice for Angolans for a public place.
»»would like to know if in the international affairs Brazilain Portuguese is more used than the Continental one»»
Do you mean "outside the Portuguese speaking countries?"
Well, although Portuguese is a world language there is not a dominant variety of Portuguese for "international affairs" that I am aware of. I know of instances relating to international affairs (conferences) where Brazilians have rejected EP speakerds translators and demanded BP speakers translators.
Yet, I have found that anything goes as far as Portuguese being represented internationally.
Regarding the Portuguese speaking countries, I have visited a few and the signes there often reflect their own variety of Portuguese.
In Angola I found a sign saying "É priobido cagar na praia"
The word "cagar" is considered very "rude and crude" in EP Portuguese. Yet it was the word of choice for Angolans for a public place.
Alison,
»»So what is the complaining about? Can you explain better? »»
The complain: Some Brazilians will say that they do not understand EP Portuguese.
My point is that some Brazilians will pretend that they don’t understand EP speakers others are not pretending at all. I truly believe that SOME Brazilians DO NOT understand EP speakers. Yet, some of them will make the effort to understand EP and some will not make the effort to understand EP. That’s their choice.
My other point is that we EP speakers should not make an issue of that.
It is not the business of EP speakers to make everyone in Brazil understand us. This will never happen. Who needs it anyway?
For us EP speakers to make an issue of that is contra-productive. We will be alienating more Brazilians than winning them because althoug it is not essential that all Brazilians understand EP speakers it is in the interest of EP speakers that more Brazilians understand us than vice-versa. So, be kind and accepting. You will won some and lose a few.
»»So what is the complaining about? Can you explain better? »»
The complain: Some Brazilians will say that they do not understand EP Portuguese.
My point is that some Brazilians will pretend that they don’t understand EP speakers others are not pretending at all. I truly believe that SOME Brazilians DO NOT understand EP speakers. Yet, some of them will make the effort to understand EP and some will not make the effort to understand EP. That’s their choice.
My other point is that we EP speakers should not make an issue of that.
It is not the business of EP speakers to make everyone in Brazil understand us. This will never happen. Who needs it anyway?
For us EP speakers to make an issue of that is contra-productive. We will be alienating more Brazilians than winning them because althoug it is not essential that all Brazilians understand EP speakers it is in the interest of EP speakers that more Brazilians understand us than vice-versa. So, be kind and accepting. You will won some and lose a few.